[21:20:13] Doomfarer:
how about if I give you the 5 min version of me and what I believe.. then you ask about what you want more of...


[21:22:02] Doomfarer:
ok .. this is going to sound a bit blunt.... but take no offense...


[21:22:23] Doomfarer:
I came upon gor at the ripe old age of 15...


[21:22:39] Kat:
Belief, Sir, not fact...tis understood lol


[21:22:41] Doomfarer:
Nearly 30 yrs ago....


[21:23:25] Doomfarer:
The lifestyle of the books I was taught from a very young age..


[21:23:53] Doomfarer:
Contracts are unnecessary.. the given word is enough.. you live up to what you say...


[21:24:03] Doomfarer:
If you agree to do some it gets done..


[21:24:08] Doomfarer:
that simple


[21:24:32] Doomfarer:
My girl and I have been together for 25 yrs..


[21:24:47] Doomfarer:
Married for 23 and hve 5 children..


[21:24:59] Kat:
(awesome)


[21:25:23] Doomfarer:
she kneels at my feet for there is where she and I both arehappy..


[21:26:23] Doomfarer:
I do not concern myself with others when it comes to her for she is mine...I know who she is going home with and I know she will take care of any offense given to her...


[21:27:04] Doomfarer:
If you have a problem with her actions she will bring you to me... I will get exactly what happened... and she will abide by my decision..


[21:27:25] Doomfarer:
no discussion.. I have final say.. period..


[21:28:07] Doomfarer:
I make my decisions based upon what is best for all of us not based upon what is best for me or what she wants..


[21:28:39] Doomfarer:
You see for us it is very easy..


[21:28:47] linny:
<Enters the Dungeon>


[21:29:44] Doomfarer:
we have been together for so long... that she knows what I will take offense to and what I will simply look at another and tell them she was taught this in this maner ... if they do not care for it she will not serv them...


[21:30:25] Doomfarer:
I really don't care what others think... about me.. take me for what I am... or leave me alone..


[21:30:35] gentle:
*smiles warmly* greetings linny....


[21:30:39] Doomfarer:
welcome linny...


[21:30:59] Kat:
*quietly* E'nin linny


[21:31:04] Doomfarer:
perfect..


[21:31:04] boy:
greetings linny


[21:31:18] linny:
greetings Master Doom, gentle, Kat Ma'am and boy *smiles*


[21:31:36] Doomfarer:
linny.... a question..


[21:31:55] linny:
yes Master Doom?


[21:32:12] Doomfarer:
You asked for a shourt training session from me for your birthday present... why?


[21:33:13] linny:
a couple of reasons, let me see...


[21:33:50] linny:
First, probably foremost, it was a "fantasy" of mine to be subject to the kind of control that the Gorean stories talk about -- not the fantasy world, but the concept...


[21:34:14] Kat:
*shudders and nodsnods*


[21:34:41] linny:
Second, and equally important, i can only submit my rather strong will to someone i trust... and i trust You *grins*... both by reputation and by my own experience ---


[21:34:55] gentle:
<just sitting here>


[21:35:23] Doomfarer:
Yes linny the trust is there ormy whip would have never left my bag..


[21:35:24] linny:
and Third, You *are* what You say you are... You are not a fantasy Lord and Master, not a wannabe whatever from a planet with multiple moons... You are....Doomfarer....


[21:35:50] Doomfarer:
was it what you thought it would be like?


[21:36:55] missyinchains:
<Enters the Dungeon>


[21:37:01] linny:
my *grins*--in the gorean terms--belly burns to serve,to LEARN to serve.... to be the treasure of someone who knows the meaning of responsibility, of power, of strength of character and will.... and *wink* since You are taken (obviously --waves to Your lady) a moment of Your training for a birthday was .... a special gift *grins*


[21:37:40] Doomfarer:
welcome missy...


[21:37:43] linny:
yes Master Doom.... although *laughs* i have to wonder if i could have withstood the strict training for more than an evening.... i *think* i could... but yes, it was all i hoped for


[21:37:45] missyinchains:
hi all


[21:37:53] boy:
greetings missy


[21:38:04] Kat:
/t gentle thank you


[21:38:07] Kat:
oops


[21:38:09] Doomfarer:
I can play in the BDSm world but I do not play the same way as any I have seen...


[21:38:16] linny:
greetings missy *waves and smiles*


[21:38:36] missyinchains:
sorry i am late personal stuff


[21:38:45] Kat:
not familiar with the features here


[21:38:58] Kat:
In what "same way" do You mean?


[21:39:03] Doomfarer:
Aslinny can tell you... I do not ask what you want in a scene i take what I want... I get from you that which I enjoy...


[21:39:16] Kat:
E'nin missy


[21:39:39] linny:
nods nods nods *laughing and rubbing where the stripes were*


[21:40:06] gentle:
*smiles warmly* greetings missyinchains...


[21:40:09] Doomfarer:
I am not a Dom... in the BDSm term.... I am a Master in the Gorean term..


[21:40:13] missyinchains:
so i have a question hope it doesn't relate to what i missed


[21:40:20] Kat:
Oh I know a Sadist or two like that, Sir


[21:40:29] Doomfarer:
Put simply...


[21:40:37] Doomfarer:
lol


[21:40:54] missyinchains:
what is the difference between Gor and traditional d/s


[21:40:56] Doomfarer:
love I play with a 5ft cat made from rawhide...


[21:41:06] gentle:
Master Doom ? a question please ?


[21:41:20] Kat:
One told His slave she could put anything she wanted to in the contract, as long as He could do whatever He wanted


[21:41:31] Doomfarer:
the last public scene I did took nearly 1/3 of the dun... and was nearly 2 hrs long..


[21:41:43] Doomfarer:
ask gentle


[21:42:12] gentle:
do you assume that the slave will "enjoy" the experience ..... simply because of the definition of headspace of a Gorean type slave/sub? ....


[21:42:15] Doomfarer:
but see Kat I do not negotiate.. nor do I believe in contracts..


[21:42:27] Doomfarer:
If you put on the collar you have given premission..


[21:43:23] boy:
<just sitting here>


[21:43:32] Doomfarer:
Yes I do.. for I do not play often in public.. and only with those who know what and how I am... if you do not know I tell them where they can find out...and who to talk too..


[21:43:36] Kat:
understood


[21:43:51] Kat:
afk...Master home am serving His supper


[21:44:29] Doomfarer:
when linny asked for her "gift" she was told to talk to certain people..


[21:44:31] linny:
Master Doom, may i comment please?


[21:45:10] Doomfarer:
i asked for the person who was responsible for her to write to me with permission to put her in a "training collar"


[21:45:23] Doomfarer:
yes linny


[21:46:54] linny:
thank You. In the world in which Master Doom lives, for those who are serious about Gorean attitudes and lifestyles, a collar is not a lightly taken thing, for once given, even for an evening,it carries weight and responsibility ... Master Doom questioned me extensively about whether i understood, even for an evening,what was required of me


[21:47:24] missyinchains:
<just sitting here>


[21:47:26] missyinchains:
<just sitting here>


[21:47:28] missyinchains:
<just sitting here>


[21:47:33] linny:
the only requirement.... to totally submit to His will... once collared, my will belonged to Him


[21:47:58] missyinchains:
and that makes sense


[21:48:13] gentle:
ah-ha! thank you linny.... that helps clarify for me.... and answer the question i was formulating for Master Doom....


[21:48:16] Doomfarer:
There is where BDSm and Gor begin to seperate...


[21:48:24] missyinchains:
but why gor


[21:48:36] linny:
i know that if i had not understood, and had Master Doom had even a niggle of a doubt, there would have been no training... *laughs* though i might still have gotten that birthday spanking!


[21:49:03] Kat:
test


[21:49:07] Kat:
afk still


[21:49:09] Doomfarer:
Why Not Gor?


[21:49:26] Doomfarer:
I love the structure..


[21:49:32] Doomfarer:
The formality


[21:49:56] missyinchains:
same structure in traditional M/s


[21:49:59] Doomfarer:
to enter a room and know who belongs to who and who is what..


[21:50:04] CC:
<Enters the Dungeon>


[21:50:08] Doomfarer:
no not exactly..


[21:50:19] missyinchains:
<just sitting here>


[21:50:22] missyinchains:
<just sitting here>


[21:50:22] CC:
*slips in quitely*


[21:50:24] missyinchains:
<just sitting here>


[21:50:29] linny:
Gorean philosophy is full of protocols, of structure.... *hushes cuz Master Doom doesnt need me to say it *laughs**


[21:50:31] boy:
greetings cc


[21:50:35] gentle:
*peeks and grins* welcome CC !!


[21:50:37] missyinchains:
please explain then


[21:50:37] linny:
greetings CC Ma'am *huge smile*


[21:50:44] Doomfarer:
traditional M/s still only requires a slave to obey only her Master.. or Mistress..


[21:50:47] missyinchains:
<just sitting here>


[21:50:52] Kat:
E'nin CC ...back for a mo


[21:50:56] missyinchains:
hi cc


[21:51:10] CC:
<just sitting here>


[21:51:20] Doomfarer:
a gorean Slave obeys all Free persons... until a command comes into conflict with a restriction placed upon her by her Master or Mistress..


[21:51:51] Doomfarer:
/ CC welcome and the weather has been bad here since yesterday..


[21:51:59] Kat:
<just sitting here>


[21:52:14] linny:
<just sitting here>


[21:52:37] missyinchains:
why obey all free persons


[21:52:40] Kat:
yes, see...that would be a problem for me


[21:52:43] Doomfarer:
a funny story...personal experience..


[21:52:47] CC:
Doomfarer ~ how does that work in a BDSM environment? I mean a dominant is a Freeperson but isnt necessarily cognizant of the inteworkings of Gorean protocol


[21:53:17] CC:
*listens*


[21:53:24] Kat:
*listening whilke going to explain to Master about the chat...hoping HE'll join us*


[21:53:33] missyinchains:
so is a non collared submissive


[21:53:36] Doomfarer:
The first time we went down to ATl to a BDSm party was for a friends collaring... BDSm collar.


[21:54:09] linny:
*listens*


[21:54:20] Doomfarer:
shaka kneeling at my feet began to squirm...and feel very uncomfortable..


[21:54:41] Doomfarer:
I just started to laugh...


[21:55:24] Doomfarer:
she was in discomfort.. because Doms were speaking to her... opening doors.. letting her pass all kinds of things.


[21:55:55] boy:
That's what atracts me to Gor. The fact that the slave is below all free people.


[21:56:03] linny:
*grins...can imagine shaka squirming....


[21:56:04] Doomfarer:
but the kicker... was watching her start to come apart.. because a dom was getting up to get there own drink.. not being waited upon..


[21:56:18] Doomfarer:
You see..


[21:56:26] Fezzig:
<Enters the Dungeon>


[21:56:35] Kat:
*beams*


[21:56:54] missyinchains:
and boy a male slave is below a female slave


[21:56:56] Kat:
*greets Him quietly, waiting for a pause*


[21:57:09] Fezzig:
Good evening.


[21:57:11] Doomfarer:
The gorean slave is there to make the life of the Free easier by doing all of the little things so they can concentrate on matters that effect her life as well as their own..


[21:57:27] missyinchains:
hi fezzig


[21:57:33] boy:
yes that is true Kat


[21:57:42] Doomfarer:
missy that depends upon what type of household..


[21:57:47] CC:
*chuckles softly thinking of shaka and knows it has been WAY too long since we've seen each other*


[21:58:05] Kat:
Was missy, boy


[21:58:13] Doomfarer:
welcome Fezzig


[21:58:30] Doomfarer:
you see serving is what she enjoys...


[21:58:41] missyinchains:
well what i know about gor is the male is the lowest on the totem pole


[21:58:43] Fezzig:
Tal, Doomfarer


[21:58:46] Kat:
*smiles warmly* Sir, may I introduce my Master, Fezzig


[21:58:47] boy:
Sorry Kat


[21:58:47] Doomfarer:
it is her way of showing off how well she is trained..


[21:58:47] linny:
*bites tongue at boy's comment.... not sure "below" is the right term... at the service of, the Free.... but would never see shaka as *below* Master Doom


[21:58:55] missyinchains:
male slave that is


[21:59:04] Doomfarer:
or in her words just how good a Master I am..


[21:59:11] linny:
greetings Fezzig *smiles*


[21:59:35] Doomfarer:
The movements of a Gorean slave will speak volumes to a gorean Master/Mistress..


[21:59:47] Fezzig:
Greetings, linny


[21:59:52] Kat:
Master, Doomfarer Sir is leading the convo tonight, and CC here is the Hostess with the Mostest


[21:59:55] gentle:
*slips a question in quietly* Master Doom .... " a gorean Slave obeys all Free persons... until a command comes into conflict with a restriction placed upon her by her Master or Mistress.." how does that work in terms of non-Goreans please -- either vanilla or BDSM non-Goreans??


[22:00:05] Doomfarer:
<just sitting here>


[22:00:13] boy:
as a slave I would feel below a free person


[22:00:33] Doomfarer:
The care that is taken in a serv shows the level of her training


[22:01:02] gentle:
*smiles* greetings Fezzig ...


[22:01:05] Doomfarer:
The same rules apply gentle...


[22:01:26] Doomfarer:
if she gives offense by her actions to either.. she will bring them to me..


[22:01:57] Doomfarer:
in the BDSM world when we go.. we abide by the house rules..


[22:02:08] linny:
<just sitting here>


[22:02:11] Fezzig:
<just sitting here>


[22:02:13] Doomfarer:
just as we do when we guest at any other place..


[22:02:14] Kat:
<just sitting here>


[22:02:55] CC:
Doom ~ Im thinking to the first time I saw both you and shaka I didnt meet you that time but observed from a disatance ... it was in that "unmeeting" of watching shaka's interaction ....which made me interested in the two of you


[22:03:04] Doomfarer:
shaka only servs those who know what she is... or those whos slaves know what she is..


[22:03:56] Doomfarer:
for it is our understanding... that to serv anothers Dom can be a sign of disrespect..


[22:03:57] Kat:
<~~would love to be trained to do a real Gorean serve


[22:03:58] missyinchains:
so far i don't see any difference between that and traditional M/s


[22:04:10] Kat:
All I know is what I learned in the chat rooms lol


[22:04:30] gentle:
ahhhh..... Master Doom ... i was thinking of just plain every day interactions.....


[22:04:31] linny:
*laughs softly* details Kat, its in the details!


[22:04:45] Fezzig:
will rectify that oversight in the future to come..


[22:04:48] Doomfarer:
CC if you will notice.. when we enter a room we get watched alot...I sometimes fell like I am the animal act at the ZOO..


[22:05:16] Kat:
*chuckles at the image* Forgive me, Sire


[22:05:21] Kat:
Sir even


[22:05:27] Doomfarer:
missy dependsupon what you mean by traditionl..


[22:05:27] missyinchains:
is that not because most don't practise D/s


[22:05:37] CC:
Doom ... it was more informational for me to watch from afar .. *lil smile*


[22:05:45] Kat:
Over here we have the kangaroos..and over here the Goreans...


[22:06:00] linny:
gentle.... to Master Doom and shaka... it IS everyday interactions.... she is kajira, He is Master, and she treats all from that training He has given... and its absolutely awesome


[22:06:08] missyinchains:
European household tradition


[22:06:10] Doomfarer:
for I have spoken to "elders" of the BDSm 'world"and they will agree that it is how it used to be...


[22:06:44] Kat:
True...servants DID have to obey anyone in the household as they would the Master


[22:06:50] CC:
missyinchains ... what I see as the primary difference is that for the most part is that a good bit of "real" Gorean protocol is more uniform for many where BDSM protocol is definitely more erratic or Master/slave (or whatever designation you choose) specific


[22:06:56] boy:
Thanks for allowing me to join your chat. Sorry to have to leave. It was nice meeting everyone and good nite to all


[22:07:13] Doomfarer:
yes in Many ways... missy the basics are very similar.. only the trappings and cerimonies are different..


[22:07:22] gentle:
night boy... *warm smile*


[22:07:26] linny:
nite boy


[22:07:44] Doomfarer:
be well boy..


[22:07:54] Fezzig:
Fare thee well, boy


[22:08:01] Fezzig:
<just sitting here>


[22:08:08] CC:
night boy .. I hope you find your way back


[22:08:10] Kat:
Be well, boy


[22:08:41] Kat:
Master, if You will excuse me? I need to bathe the boys and put them to bed


[22:08:44] boy:
<Has left the Dungeon>


[22:08:45] missyinchains:
true cc, depends whether you are talking about the new or old views


[22:09:04] missyinchains:
I agree Doomfarer


[22:09:21] Doomfarer:
you see the structure of gor is very simple..


[22:09:51] linny:
*smiles* its the protocols that draw my heart to learn ... to dare to have asked Master Doom for a spot of training...


[22:09:52] Fezzig:
I do not mean to detract from the converssation at hand, but I too shall be going soon. The President is going to address the nation in a few minutes. It has been a Pleasurable experience to witness other's views on the lifestyle, and I look forward to my next visit to the BRC.


[22:10:11] Doomfarer:
Free Men, Free Women, kajira,slaves


[22:10:18] Fezzig:
yes, Kat.. let us adjourn.. TO all of you, I bid Good Evening..


[22:10:27] missyinchains:
I have a lot of gorean friends and what we acknowledge is the basics are the same......what differs is how we do things


[22:10:45] Fezzig:
Good Night, all


[22:10:45] Doomfarer:
Be well


[22:10:48] Fezzig:
<Has left the Dungeon>


[22:10:52] Kat:
Very nice to have met and spoken with You, Doom Sir


[22:11:01] gentle:
*smiles warmly* be well Fezzig and Kat... a pleasure to meet you both...


[22:11:06] linny:
g'nite Kat, and to your Master as well


[22:11:07] Kat:
And CC, a pleasure as always


[22:11:09] Doomfarer:
my pleasure


[22:11:09] CC:
missyinchains ... new new new .... the Old, at least the few that remain, while according to them it wasnt as uniform as some seem to think ... was WAY more stable as to expectations than most will find today


[22:11:30] CC:
Kat ... SC Kat?


[22:11:52] Kat:
Nice to have met you, missy, and you, linny


[22:12:09] missyinchains:
true cc but not with old european houses


[22:12:10] Kat:
Nope...IN Kat...new Hostess of the Ft Wayne Munch


[22:12:22] missyinchains:
nice to have met you Kat


[22:12:36] CC:
Ahh ... Hard to keep up sometimes Kat ... Thank you for joining us


[22:12:45] Kat:
oh and gentle...sorry brain is a frazzle tonight


[22:12:59] Kat:
LOL too many Kats running around *s*


[22:13:20] gentle:
Kat: *lol* not a problem.... enjoy the little Master and the big one as well !


[22:13:26] linny:
Master Doom, m'Lady CC ... i came straight here from driving home, and have had no dinner... if i may be excused.... ?


[22:13:43] Doomfarer:
scoot linny


[22:13:48] Kat:
Missy, you are referring to servants in the households, and not to some idea that there were "training houses" for slaves, right?


[22:14:08] linny:
And yes Master Doom, the weather has been simply awful..... my love to shaka please Master!!!


[22:14:25] gentle:
*smiles warmly* nice to meet you linny... and i enjoyed your comments very much !


[22:14:26] missyinchains:
as to discussing old versus new you will have to wait till april 16th


[22:14:45] CC:
I can only relate to a couple that have spoken to me about European households .... and they were primarily run with the same heirarchy ... with subtle household differences ~ again based upon their owners


[22:14:59] linny:
*waves a smiling goodnight to all.... well wishes to ye'


[22:15:03] linny:
<Has left the Dungeon>


[22:15:12] CC:
good night then linny


[22:15:15] Doomfarer:
missy... what most call the old euro houses... do not exist in alot of areas...


[22:15:20] Kat:
lol must go...be well all


[22:15:25] Doomfarer:
or are very few...


[22:15:34] Doomfarer:
be well


[22:16:12] missyinchains:
yes very few of us tradional M/s believers but we do exist


[22:16:23] Doomfarer:
I personaly have found that alot of what is called "Old Guard" has a very similar structure..


[22:16:25] CC:
And some will tell you that they were and are but fables ...


[22:16:52] missyinchains:
what are fables


[22:17:30] Doomfarer:
And from what I havev been able to learn the first of the Gorean families came from some of those same type households...


[22:18:29] Doomfarer:
Those who did not want to adapt to this new type of power sharing...


[22:18:42] CC:
some of the "old ones" that I've spoke to speak of European BDSM as "fables". While of course there were and ARE more what we now call traditional European ... was more of BDSM in a formal setting rather than a uniform code .... ie they way we are backwards revisionists


[22:18:44] Doomfarer:
but believed that once a slave is a slave..


[22:18:52] missyinchains:
what is called old guard is mostly myth but their principles values and beliefs are worth while looking at


[22:19:51] CC:
missy ... that is pretty much what Guy Baldwin and I talked about when I had a chance to visit with him at length in Austin a year ago


[22:20:04] missyinchains:
more in D/s cc not bdsm


[22:20:06] Doomfarer:
What is called Old guard now is simply how things were done when respect was paramount... and the way of life was very similar to a militarty structure..


[22:20:11] CC:
He also had some very interesting comments about Gorean says


[22:20:47] missyinchains:
yes i talked to Guy last summer


[22:22:13] CC:
It was pretty funny .. the first time I met him was in Denver ... then LA and Austin where we talked for a few hrs and back at the hotel room and again in Denver ... we just kept bumping into each other!


[22:22:51] gentle:
Master Doom .... i still am not clear about how shaka .... interacts with say ... the local bank teller .... or a grocery store clerk.... or the people where she works. Would you mind addressing that a bit more please ?


[22:22:52] CC:
So Doom ... how DOES one find ... meet... other Goreans ... or become involved in a family?


[22:22:58] missyinchains:
and Doomfarer much of what they said should still be applicable


[22:23:13] Doomfarer:
I agree..


[22:23:31] Doomfarer:
is one of the reason the BDSM world confuses the hell out of me..


[22:24:30] missyinchains:
it is simple cause most of the new to the scene have no D/s component


[22:24:49] Doomfarer:
a set of rules existed... then the anyone can become anything.. began to take root in order to attract people... now it is so confusing that too many have no idea what they are talking about when trying to have a conversation..


[22:24:50] missyinchains:
just bd&sm


[22:25:19] missyinchains:
exactly true


[22:25:24] Doomfarer:
yes seems that way to me...


[22:26:20] Doomfarer:
I had one of the worst experiences in my life... when I simply asked if someone could explain to me what the term slave meant in the BDSm way..


[22:26:34] CC:
nods unhappily at much of what "is"


[22:26:39] missyinchains:
join me on april 16th that is the subject


[22:26:54] CC:
you would get as many answers as people you asked


[22:27:07] missyinchains:
slave to the newbies means anyone that is submissive


[22:27:14] CC:
thanks missy for putting in the April 16th plug


[22:27:25] Doomfarer:
I simply got frustrated when I learned that it meant whatever whoever wanted it to mean... at that particular moment..


[22:27:25] missyinchains:
means nothing anymore


[22:27:55] Doomfarer:
and changed the next minute or person..


[22:28:25] CC:
*whispers* it did go out briefly noted in the newsletter ... and will be expanded upon in the next one


[22:29:00] CC:
It is for that reason Doom ... that in many ways I have become more and more interested in a Gorean context


[22:29:10] Doomfarer:
I speant 4 yrs trying to understand what the net had done to the meaning of Gorean terms... still had to translate it in my head from the meanings I had fromlong ago...


[22:30:14] gentle:
<just sitting here>


[22:30:15] Doomfarer:
now it seems that everyone who is trying to take the lifestyle they learned on the net to the real world they are having to change the terms back to the original meaning..


[22:30:30] Kat:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>


[22:30:48] Doomfarer:
Now I am watching..them struggle just as I did yrs ago...


[22:30:51] missyinchains:
trust me Doom those traditional M/s folks struggle with the same thing


[22:31:39] Doomfarer:
i know I have talked to a few... who laugh about how screwed the net has made their lives..


[22:32:10] Doomfarer:
The net has brought in the people but look at what it has cost...


[22:32:28] missyinchains:
well i run a discusion group of over 200 members most just don't get it or care


[22:33:14] CC:
I think that is the ticket there missy ... dont get it or care ... and it isnt just a discussion group ... but r/t or what passes for it as well


[22:33:24] Doomfarer:
Personally I believe they do not want to get it for it means responsibility... and that is my pet peeve..


[22:33:41] CC:
*groans at Doomfarere's comment about the cost*


[22:33:44] gentle:
<Enters the Dungeon>


[22:33:52] missyinchains:
agree Doom


[22:34:13] CC:
w/b genle


[22:34:17] CC:
gentle even


[22:34:44] gentle:
*grins softly* thanks CC ....


[22:34:48] CC:
oh wait ... responsibility? oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeee not that!


[22:34:57] Doomfarer:
So how do we fix it...


[22:35:08] missyinchains:
i am much closer to my Gorean friends then many others, just cause they know what being a slave means


[22:35:43] missyinchains:
but I still have problems with male superiority


[22:35:46] Doomfarer:
how do those of us who do care.. who do try... who do want to be responsible... when do we decide to take back what we want..


[22:36:06] Doomfarer:
but missy... it is not Male superiority..


[22:36:18] Doomfarer:
men and women are just different....


[22:36:22] Doomfarer:
not equal..


[22:36:26] Doomfarer:
to uas


[22:36:29] Doomfarer:
us


[22:36:37] missyinchains:
okay explain please


[22:36:50] Doomfarer:
The rules of the Gorean way are based upon the laws of physical strength..


[22:37:14] missyinchains:
okay and


[22:37:19] Doomfarer:
You have to be physically strong enough to hold what you calm to be yours..


[22:37:52] Doomfarer:
I will agree that some men are not capable... and I will agree that some women are


[22:37:55] missyinchains:
physically or mentally?


[22:38:40] Doomfarer:
if a woman can hold her own in the World of men.. by the same rules that apply to the Men.. then whe will get the same respect as men..


[22:38:48] Doomfarer:
physically..


[22:38:58] missyinchains:
kewl


[22:39:03] Doomfarer:
like wise..


[22:39:28] Doomfarer:
if a man cannot live by those same rules then he will not get the same respect..


[22:39:38] missyinchains:
then me holding an 8' bullwhip will command that


[22:39:46] Doomfarer:
There are simply 2 different sets of rules..


[22:39:48] CC:
a note as to "how we fix it" ....(off topic) I have been thinking of the Phoenix ...and only through the fire did it come back ... so perhaps this debacle that has hit our community may be some of what it takes to bring back some of the good things that have been lost without the bad ...


[22:40:08] Doomfarer:
One is for the interaction with most men the other is for the interaction of most women..


[22:40:58] Doomfarer:
possilbly... if you are willing to trade blows with a Man 6'4" and 220 lbs... with one of the same in his hand..


[22:41:26] missyinchains:
CC i have been promoting BTTB and hopefully with some success


[22:41:33] Doomfarer:
you see you will be challanged with the weapon you carry...


[22:41:43] missyinchains:
if need be yes Doom


[22:41:50] gentle:
thinks about .... a woman who might be physically strong enough to hold what she claims.... but who ..... has such a slave belly.... that she would submit .... *just thinking out loud trying to sort it all out*


[22:42:16] Doomfarer:
But remember... you challange..i choose the weapon..


[22:42:50] Doomfarer:
those are the rules..


[22:42:51] missyinchains:
i may lose but i know i can take a whip


[22:43:43] Doomfarer:
Remember.. the rules of conduct...


[22:43:51] Doomfarer:
that we live by..


[22:44:09] Doomfarer:
if you want what I have you must challange...


[22:44:24] Doomfarer:
If you challange then I choose the weapon..


[22:44:41] missyinchains:
i don't want what you have just respect


[22:45:01] Doomfarer:
You are good with the whip... perhaps I am good with my hands...so it would become a bare knuckles brawl..


[22:45:40] Doomfarer:
but if you are a Free woman.. the respect will be given... as long as you abide by the rules that apply to Free Men and Women..


[22:45:46] missyinchains:
not my way


[22:46:43] Doomfarer:
The problem come when a person from BDSm goes to a Gorean Function and demands to be treated in the manner in which they are used too.


[22:46:48] CC:
isnt it nice that we have the option to choose where we wish to be and what works for us


[22:46:52] missyinchains:
in Gorean terms i will always be free, even if I am owned


[22:47:16] Doomfarer:
How would you like it if I just grabbed any slave that wlaked by at one of your functions and demanded that i be served a Drink ..


[22:47:36] Doomfarer:
Not if you show up with a collar on..


[22:47:54] missyinchains:
i would say you are out of line


[22:47:54] CC:
I can tell you for a certainty ... should I ever have the opportunity to be invited it a Gorean function .. I will NOT e wearing earrings or choker necklaces!


[22:48:23] Doomfarer:
It would be advisable..


[22:48:49] missyinchains:
if i showed up with a collar on then i would expect you respect that and my beliefs


[22:49:09] Doomfarer:
Why?


[22:49:34] CC:
I dont think so missy ... when at a Gorean function ... Gorean rules reign ... and likewise at a BDSM dungeon


[22:49:38] missyinchains:
which are traditional european M/s


[22:50:03] Doomfarer:
I show up at BDSM functions and do not get no consideration for my beliefs..


[22:50:05] missyinchains:
if gorean function then no collar


[22:50:28] CC:
same premise ...in my house we do not smoke ... if you come here you can smoke but you will do so outside .. I dont care if you smoke in your house or not


[22:50:38] Doomfarer:
If Gorean function.. do not go unattended..


[22:51:12] Doomfarer:
or have someone there who knows you are coming.. and has some say in the function..


[22:51:39] Doomfarer:
I'm not trying to tell you not to go..


[22:52:00] Doomfarer:
I'm trying to tell you how to go so that you will enjoy the experience...


[22:52:16] missyinchains:
yes true, but then as with a function i am attending in Seot I ask for protection of the head of the household who respects my status and beliefs


[22:52:19] gentle:
Master Doom .... you are saying that females should not go unattended to a Gorean function ?


[22:52:41] CC:
the when in Rome speaks volumes about protocol as well


[22:53:11] Doomfarer:
exactly.. to both of you..


[22:53:27] Doomfarer:
missy that is exactly what you do..


[22:53:30] missyinchains:
yes gentle that is not a wise idea to go without protection


[22:54:04] Doomfarer:
if you wish to go then ask some one whom you trust to act as your protector..is the word we use..but it is has more of a meaning of Host..


[22:54:22] CC:
Doom ...seguing back to an earlier question *S* how DOES one go about meeting or getting a Gorean invite ?


[22:54:45] Doomfarer:
You can go unattended as long as someone is responsible for you..


[22:54:52] missyinchains:
yup Doom I have learned as I said been around lots of Goreans and with functions am well protected


[22:55:15] Doomfarer:
It is kinda hard to do...CC


[22:55:39] Doomfarer:
Join some of the Gorean Lists..


[22:55:40] CC:
now HOW did I KNOW that?


[22:55:53] Doomfarer:
get to be known..


[22:56:23] Doomfarer:
S&S have several functions every yr..


[22:56:43] Doomfarer:
One is coming up in St Louis in about 2 months..


[22:56:55] CC:
S&S?


[22:56:59] Doomfarer:
unless all this mess cancels it..


[22:57:29] Doomfarer:
Silk and Steel.. is probably the oldest chat room about Gor on MIRC....


[22:57:46] missyinchains:
well biggest Gorean run function I know is Whipstock 2003


[22:58:02] missyinchains:
next Sept


[22:58:06] Doomfarer:
do not agree with alot of their beliefs... because of what the net has done to the basics..


[22:58:50] CC:
Doom could you please email me the MIRC info and channels? I may acutally have to break down and load that...


[22:58:56] Doomfarer:
A few of us are working on one for VEGAs in Oct.... but it is a private function.. between 4 different families..


[22:59:08] Doomfarer:
go on the web... love..


[22:59:15] missyinchains:
the net has changed a lot


[22:59:17] Doomfarer:
do a search on Gor..


[22:59:30] missyinchains:
and not for the best


[22:59:33] CC:
Thank you all for coming ... those that remain that is .... *S* I know it is getting late for you Doom *grins*


[22:59:43] Doomfarer:
you will find S&S website listed.. or it used to be


[22:59:55] Doomfarer:
way past my bedtime..


[23:00:08] Doomfarer:
missy I enjoyed the talk..


[23:00:18] Doomfarer:
gentle always a pleasure..


[23:00:26] CC:
quite frankly a private type function would be way more to my liking and interest than the commercialized schtick based on net nonsense


[23:00:27] missyinchains:
and from this canuk, was a nice talk


[23:00:37] Doomfarer:
CC send an old man a note from time to time..


[23:00:50] CC:
<<< knows nothing about MIRC


[23:00:58] Doomfarer:
true.. they are the best..


[23:01:00] gentle:
night night Master Doom .... and thank you so much! Really enjoyed your talk ... and ... *grins as i peek past you* night night shaka .... *hugs and hugs* --- look forward to seeing you both soon !


[23:01:02] CC:
yeah yeah Old Man


[23:01:17] CC:
lets do Dante's again!


[23:01:25] Doomfarer:
lol


[23:01:30] CC:
with a private dining room


[23:01:40] gentle:
night missy .... :)


[23:01:42] Doomfarer:
We can try....


[23:02:00] Doomfarer:
but my days are getting longer.. and longer.. the season is about to begin....


[23:02:02] gentle:
*laughs softly*


[23:02:08] CC:
(love the one downstairs with the curtains)


[23:02:08] missyinchains:
old man shit i hope people don't say that about me....


[23:02:16] CC:
no more hanging over balconies


[23:02:38] Doomfarer:
send me a note.. the next time you are heading up./.. and we'll try and work it out..


[23:02:38] CC:
grins ... ahh no that would be "old lady"


[23:02:38] missyinchains:
at 54 still going strong lol


[23:02:40] CC:
*cucks*


[23:02:45] CC:
errrr *ducks*


[23:03:05] Doomfarer:
good for you....


[23:03:07] CC:
will do that Doom ... heading to ohio on friday ...


[23:03:31] Doomfarer:
be carefull and be Well


[23:03:36] CC:
nighters everyone .... enjoy what is left of your evening ... and or your bed


[23:03:37] Doomfarer:
I am gone ladies..


[23:03:38] missyinchains:
oh where in ohio


[23:03:41] CC:
tal!


[23:03:57] missyinchains:
bye Doom and thanks


[23:04:04] gentle:
night night CC !


[23:04:12] gentle:
<Has left the Dungeon>


[23:04:17] CC:
Will be in Columbus ... up visiting some friends while on school break


[23:04:53] missyinchains:
hmmmmmmm not that far from me


[23:05:14] CC:
:)


[23:05:35] CC:
well off to finish studying for finals tomorrow


[23:05:48] CC:
early class and I need to get some sleep tonight


[23:05:51] CC:
n'night !


[23:06:12] missyinchains:
well i will she you on April 16th if not before, night


[23:06:20] missyinchains:
<Has left the Dungeon>