[21:41:35] sally: <Enters the Dungeon.> hi Ms Elorin
[21:42:02] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: hello sally. are you here for the discussion tonight?
[21:42:14] sally: hi robyn
[21:42:23] sally: yes thanks
[21:42:44] sally: what shall i call you ? what is the discussion about
[21:43:02] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: Elorin or Robyn is fine.
[21:43:08] sally: just a little about my self im f bi 33 in houston
[21:43:11] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: tonight's topic is How do we deal with unexpected loss in BDSM relationships through release, uncollaring, death, or moving?
[21:43:20] sally: have done about 8 bdsm real events
[21:43:20] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: we will be starting in about 20 minutes
[21:43:36] sally: went to meeting regard bdsm for six months proir
[21:43:38] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: Houston is a good area to get involved
[21:44:11] sally: yes seemed very active
[21:44:56] sally: may i ask are you a dominate mistress? im submisive
[21:46:05] sally: while we are chating i will tell you more
[21:46:38] sally: my husband and i used to swing but he stopped as is now a "born again christian"
[21:47:17] sally: so im the sinner so i have started doing bdsm things with Mistresss and threesome with a dom and his f sub
[21:47:26] Robynsdahar: <Enters the Dungeon>
[21:48:26] sally: hi robyn
[21:48:33] sally: dahar
[21:49:25] sally: <just sitting here>
[21:49:36] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: <Has left the Dungeon>
[21:50:02] sally: hi
[21:50:13] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: <Enters the Dungeon>
[21:50:30] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: hello boy ~smiles warmly~ I'm having problems with the chat room today
[21:51:13] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: sally - yes, I am a Dominant.
[21:51:26] sally: seeem s to working for me
[21:51:28] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: ~ruffles my boy's hair~
[21:52:04] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: boy... a lovely article on boots.
[21:53:23] sally: should i keep talking or shut up?
[21:53:42] Robynsdahar2: *liking this link*
[21:53:56] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: sally - you may keep talking if you would like, while we wait for others to begin our discussion
[21:55:06] sally: so i had two encounter with a Mistress i would like to talk about .. but i STOP seen her as i felt she was using me
[21:55:47] Robynsdahar2: <just sitting here>
[21:56:07] Robynsdahar2: Good evening sally *warm smile, soft bow*
[21:57:35] sally: well the frist event went as agreed .. we meet in front of mixed group of about 12 to 14 and did things in front of them .. ie bondage, tied to cross etc. all went well all was happy
[21:58:19] sally: but the second event went to a big party ,, very rich people an well know people. i was in a cage nude that was ok
[21:58:56] sally: but as the evening went on no real bondage or excitment ..seem she had me there to only handle the men whe asked
[21:59:10] sally: so i have not seen her again
[21:59:25] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: I see
[22:00:47] sally: i didn't like it i felt like she was being paid for my service to them ... but i dont know that for sure but not what im looking for but miss her as she was knowdlegeable.
[22:02:09] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: was she a professional dominatrix?
[22:02:37] Robynsdahar: <Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>
[22:03:09] sally: if she was she didn't present he self as that she never charge me and i meet here at the bdsm meetings
[22:03:28] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: I see
[22:03:41] CelticWilliams: <Enters the Dungeon>
[22:04:39] sally: she sure knew a lot of important people in our city
[22:04:59] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: well I am going to have to interrupt...and begin our discussion
[22:05:02] Robynsdahar: <Enters the Dungeon>
[22:05:04] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: welcome CW to the BRC chat
[22:05:23] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: welcome to the Velvet Glove Open Forum - Tuesday night Discussions at the BRC
[22:05:30] Robynsdahar: Good evening CelticWilliams
[22:05:42] sally: <just sitting here>
[22:05:43] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: the Velvet Glove is (in general) moderated by yours truly - me - and is a come as you are, share your knowledge kind of discussion.
[22:05:44] CelticWilliams2: <Enters the Dungeon>
[22:05:51] sally: hi CW
[22:06:16] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: please keep in mind that you have to post at least once about every 8-10 minutes or you will be autologged out by the chat room software. if you have nothing to say just hit enter and it will post this
[22:06:38] CelticWilliams2: Godoevenign thank you ... i see my twin brother is still in the room that was werid
[22:06:41] Robynsdahar: <just sitting here>
[22:06:42] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: if we have problems with the chat room we will adjourn to the D/s center chat room at www.webmaze.com in their BDSM chat section. registration is required, but is free.
[22:07:07] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: tonight's topic is How do we deal with unexpected loss in BDSM relationships through release, uncollaring, death, or moving?
[22:07:12] CelticWilliams2: k thank you
[22:07:17] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: What are healthy ways of obtaining closure in relationships that end suddenly? How do you get closure when you are released from a collar and still see your ex regularly? How do you handle it when someone moves away, or passes away, with no warning?
[22:08:11] CelticWilliams2: .
[22:08:22] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: there are a lot of different items here to consider. I'm going to start with a relationship ending. how do you get closure? sometimes a relationship ends by the request of one partner, and the other is left hanging, so to speak. what do you do?
[22:08:57] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: a lot of us are plagued by "what did I do wrong?" or "why doesn't she love me anymore?" or "is there something wrong with me?"
[22:09:33] CelticWilliams2: yep been there /still there
[22:09:46] sally: <just sitting here>
[22:09:56] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: as in many areas of BDSM relationships, a lot can be said here for frank, honest discussion with the parties involved. if you are too emotional to discuss things at first, I would recommend finding a friend who will listen and let you vent, taking the "edge" from your emotions, or possibly writing in a journal until you are calmer, before talking to the person you were involved with
[22:10:00] Robynsdahar: Well the question really is, why is this relationship breaking up? For me closure is understanding why the relationship ended, if I can get that awnser I am still upset about it but I feel better knowing.
[22:10:43] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: blame is almost NEVER beneficial in a situation like this. looking at why the relationship didn't work can and should be healthy and productive, allowing you to get closure, but trying to figure out whose fault it was only leads to feelings of guilt, bitterness, and recriminations
[22:11:12] Robynsdahar2: <Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>
[22:11:12] Robynsdahar: :)
[22:11:24] Robynsdahar: *kicks my twin out* You better go.. :)
[22:11:27] sally: <just sitting here>
[22:12:08] CelticWilliams2: hey since your boot is int he air aim it at my twin next
[22:12:29] Robynsdahar: :)
[22:12:29] sally: My Mistress as me back some more but i said no.
[22:12:30] sally: <just sitting here>
[22:12:53] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: sometimes what the individual has to say is hard to accept, believe, or doesn't make sense. it is important to listen and absorb what you can, and then step back. while you may feel lacking in a sense of closure, dragging out a relationship that is over isn't going to help, and it is going to end up leaving both of you feeling very raw. it will also (possibly) ruin any chance there was of a friendship beyond the relationship.
[22:13:51] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: having said all of this, if you are ending a relationship with someone, understand that while YOU may have seen it coming from a long ways off, they might not have. be willing to talk frankly and honestly about the reasons why the relationship will not work for you. be open to one or two feedback/closure conversations, for someone who might be feeling at a loss.
[22:14:28] sally: <just sitting here>
[22:15:31] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: ~kicks the doorman who just ate my post~
[22:16:26] celticwilliams3: <Enters the Dungeon>
[22:16:47] MsElorin_Robyn: <Enters the Dungeon>
[22:16:59] sally: Because i am marrried and want to stay that way and he is not now a player i try to keep my relationship with a distance.. im sure im missing somthing this way
[22:17:03] MsElorin_Robyn: Ok if I get booted again I'm going to webmaze.
[22:17:06] celticwilliams3: wonderhowmany of tme there willbe tongiht
[22:17:07] Robynsdahar: wb CelticWilliams
[22:17:15] Robynsdahar: wb Duchess *deep bow*
[22:17:16] MsElorin_Robyn: what I SAID was...
[22:18:18] MsElorin_Robyn: if when you have closure conversations, do not feel that you are responsible for being insulted, blamed, flamed for ending the relationship. being willing to discuss why the relationship didn't work does NOT equate with being a doormat and letting someone use emotional blackmail on you because they don't want you to go
[22:18:26] providence: <Enters the Dungeon>
[22:18:42] CelticWilliams: <Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>
[22:18:45] celticwilliams3: not to interupt but could you post alternate site addy just incase?
[22:18:48] providence: Good evening.
[22:19:06] Robynsdahar: www.webmaze.com
[22:19:11] sally: <just sitting here>
[22:19:14] MsElorin_Robyn: trying to get closure is not the time to try to get back together. remember while you decided to end the relationship. unless each of those reasons is faced and dealt with satisfactorily, the relationship will not last the second time through, either.
[22:19:17] MsElorin_Robyn: hello providence
[22:19:19] Robynsdahar: the D/s resource room
[22:19:23] sally: hello providence
[22:19:27] celticwilliams3: ty
[22:19:58] MsElorin_Robyn: free registration at webmaze:
[22:21:31] satxsubmale: do i look good in lime green?
[22:21:51] satxsubmale: goooooood evening to one and A/all
[22:22:06] MsElorin_Robyn: having said ALL of that...once you have had one or two conversations on why a relationship didn't work, to try to obtain some closure, it is time to give it some space
[22:22:14] MsElorin_Robyn: hello Jim ~hugs~ hi providence
[22:22:40] providence: Have a good evening. *s
[22:22:44] providence: <Has left the Dungeon>
[22:22:45] MsElorin_Robyn: if you still don't have what you seek, talk to one or two friends, or do some writing to put down your thoughts on the relationship and it ending. but let go. give yourself permission to let go.
[22:23:03] satxsubmale: hugs back to MsElorin.
[22:23:11] MsElorin_Robyn: sometimes you have to do this with or without the conversations about why your relationship didn't work. sometimes you have to give yourself some slack.
[22:26:12] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: <Enters the Dungeon>
[22:26:50] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: ~kicks the doorman~ the D/s center is no longer at Webmaze. we'll have to choose another alternate location. if we want to chat elsewhere.
[22:29:24] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: ok. what was I saying.
[22:29:35] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: ~reads and tries to get my thoughts back~
[22:29:46] SinfulCitizen: <Enters the Dungeon>
[22:30:02] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: oh yes. most importantly. say goodbye. say goodbye to the person, say goodbye to the relationship. let go of what was, and what might have been.
[22:30:35] MsElorin_aka_Robyn: <Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>
[22:30:42] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: if you need to call them up and say "goodbye. i'm sorry it didn't work out" that's fine. if you need to write a letter and mail it, send an e-mail, or write a journal entry. if you need to give back a ring, collar, or gift, or burn something that symbolized your hopes and dreams for the relationship, then do so
[22:31:02] Sinful_Citizen: <Enters the Dungeon>
[22:31:08] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: but a lot of times closure will depend on you giving yourself permission to move on. we can't move on from something we didn't say goodbye to
[22:31:19] Sinful_Citizen: hmm intresting
[22:31:58] toys: that poor doorman gets licked alot
[22:32:10] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: also, please realize that closure can be REALLY hard to obtain without the help of the other party. if you are having a lot of problems letting go of a relationship, consider talking to a professional counselor. I had to go through some interesting (and gut wrenching) role play with my counselor to get a little bit of closure on my marriage ending.
[22:32:27] Sinful_Citizen: Good evening
[22:32:44] Robynsdahar: Hello :)
[22:32:58] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: it was not until she moved away that I finally felt closure in a relationship with a submissive I met online, who moved to San Antonio. That was a year and a half...before I finally let go of the guilt I felt, and the pain of the friendship and relationship ending, and ending so poorly
[22:33:11] toys: hello all
[22:33:32] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: and sometimes...when a relationship is NOT on cordial terms, you can't have conversations w/ the partner and work out "why it didn't work" and all of that...those are times to rely on friends, journaling, and possibly a professional counselor also.
[22:33:58] StacyCat: <Enters the Dungeon>
[22:34:07] sally: <just sitting here>
[22:34:09] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: most of these techniques and pieces of advice are going to work for when a relationship goes wrong, and ends.
[22:34:29] celticwilliams3: <Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>
[22:35:44] Sinful_Citizen: .
[22:35:49] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: some of them will work when you lose a friend through death. when someone dies young, there is a lot of wondering. sometimes you ask yourself why. grief over a death is not the same as grief over a relationship where you might still pull a friendship out of things, or know that the person has a chance to be happy in the future, even if it isn't with you
[22:36:24] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: when dealing with loss over a death, some of the things that will help the most are...talking to others who knew the individual, and sharing memories of the person. happy and sad. share your feelings about the loss.
[22:36:46] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: I know you will think I'm beating a dead horse (would much rather beat a live sub anyday) but...journal about it. write it down. write a story, a poem.
[22:37:06] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: write a letter to the person, saying goodbye. even if it isn't delivered, just expressing the emotions you have can help.
[22:37:32] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: if you are spiritual, pray. light a candle. burn the letter and send the smoke and the spirit of the words up to whereever your friend is now.
[22:38:09] satxsubmale: <Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>
[22:38:17] MsElorin_Robyn: <Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>
[22:38:17] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: a lot of times in BDSM relationships, whether they are friends, partners, or acquaintances, we don't know the person through their vanilla lives and it would not be appropriate to attend a funeral. if you can, send flowers. or make a donation in their honor to a charity.
[22:38:58] Sinful_Citizen: That i can relate to .. had a friend die suddenly of hemriagin .. simpy over night took a lot of soulsearching to come to terms with it ... writing helped me to understand about it and move on .. there are times i am still troubled by it .
[22:39:24] Robynsdahar: <just sitting here>
[22:39:25] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: does anyone have anything to share about ended relationships or loss through death?
[22:39:40] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: ~squeezes my baby's hand~
[22:40:29] Robynsdahar: The point was already brought up, but it takes time :(
[22:40:56] Sinful_Citizen: ty
[22:41:55] Sinful_Citizen: thats a trueism with anything emotionaly troubling it will always take time to progress thru it
[22:42:04] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: ~nods softly~ yes, dahar, it does.
[22:42:17] Robynsdahar: *nodding softly in agreement*
[22:42:33] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: and...please remember that even if you have emotions related to someone else, it doesn't give you the right to drag them along next to you until you work out your emotions
[22:43:25] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: part of respect involves letting others go their separate ways. give space and it will be given to you...and you'll be amazed at how much more quickly you find your closure after having gotten that space.
[22:44:33] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: now...sometimes with the internet, we lose friends that move, get busy, or...something. we don't know where they have gone, don't know if they will be back. it leaves us feelign up in the air, waiting for the other shoe to drop. it is hard to get closure on a relationship like this.
[22:45:31] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: but it is important to give yourself the peace that you ARE able to grasp. being honest with yourself about the loss you have gone through, whether a friend, lover, Dominant, submissive, Mentor, student, anything...is important. sometimes it is beneficial to behave as if the person is dead...or broken up with us...and
[22:46:17] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: do journalling, talking, writing, goodbye letters, whatever. unfortunately, knowing that they might come back at any moment, those things end up only superficially giving a sense of closure, and if the person turns back up, they reveal a big, raw festering wound in our hearts.
[22:46:51] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: the best thing to do here is be honest, without blame. talk frankly with yourself, and anyone involved, about your emotions. if you feel like it's unfair, SAY SO. even if we know life isn't fair, feeling like something is unfair is a valid emotion
[22:47:20] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: but be careful to own your own emotions. don't try to say that "she ruined me life" or "look at me. she made me into this horrible wreck"...
[22:48:07] Sinful_Citizen: .
[22:48:22] toys: <Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>
[22:48:55] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: when choosing to love or care for someone, we take the risk that we will eventually lose them. and we accept that risk. accept it, and accept responsibility for having gone into this willingly. it's not always pleasant, but pain is a natural consequence of any relationship...even one that is still successful! pain is life's way of saying...you are alive and you are still here, caring. feeling.
[22:49:07] StacyCat: <Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>
[22:49:07] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: ok. ~deep breath~
[22:49:08] sally: <Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>
[22:49:50] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: that is it for Dr. Elorin's psychotherapy advice for the evening. I hope someone found some benefit in this, in some way.
[22:51:19] Sinful_Citizen: literati any one?
[22:51:33] Sinful_Citizen: (born again word game junky)
[22:52:24] Robynsdahar: <just sitting here>
[22:52:29] Robynsdahar: *laughs softly*
[22:52:40] Robynsdahar: Duchess, that was very informative! Thank you
[22:53:16] Sinful_Citizen: thnaks for the links .. dahar
[22:53:32] Robynsdahar: my pleasure :)
[22:53:34] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: yer welcome boy. ~smiles softly~
[22:53:46] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: I'm leaving here but am on MSN
[22:53:49] Robyn_Arctic_Bitch: <Has left the Dungeon>
