[00:12:40] skittles2u:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[00:13:01] skittles2u:
<Has left the Dungeon>

[14:49:43] mark:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[18:41:19] Keats:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[18:41:33] Keats:
<Has left the Dungeon>

[20:09:57] jl:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[20:27:09] Mist:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[20:27:10] jl:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[20:42:22] Mist:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[20:42:51] Mist:
<Enters the Dungeon.> <just sitting here>

[20:49:52] John:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[20:50:04] John:
hello Mist

[20:50:19] Mist:
Evening

[20:50:36] John:
how are you tonight

[20:51:10] Mist:
Pretty good and you?

[20:51:34] Mist:
Nice to see somebody else here.

[20:54:25] John:
not too bad, thank you

[20:54:41] John:
there are 6 minutes before the chat starts

[20:55:54] Mist:
Ah, for once I'm early for something.

[20:55:55] erin:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[20:56:04] erin:
greetings

[20:56:19] Mist:
Greetings

[21:01:36] John:
hello and good evening, erin

[21:02:07] CC:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[21:02:29] erin:
hello CC

[21:02:32] John:
heyyy ... da boss!!!

[21:02:40] CC:
Evening! *grumbles about internet servicelessness*

[21:03:20] CC:
erin as in ketyae?

[21:03:35] Mist:
Evening

[21:03:47] erin:
no.. erin as in Shannon .. you and i exchanged emails late last week...

[21:04:42] CC:
ahh well welcome

[21:05:33] CC:
Well it looks like a cozy lil chat ...

[21:05:53] John:
I like it

[21:06:59] CC:
It has definite advantages :)

[21:07:19] CC:
even though we are small tonight .... lets try to not cross-talk

[21:08:06] CC:
we can do that by keeping to the question /discussion at hand ... and IF there is a question please just type "I have a question" ... and I'll keep track of who is next in line w/the question

[21:09:03] CC:
John I want to thank you for taking your time and being here tonight. If you would please make your own introductions we can kinda get the ball rolling

[21:09:20] CC:
(I's been about 3 years I believe since you were last here)

[21:09:44] John:
thank you, CC

[21:09:50] John:
Good Evening all

[21:10:09] John:
I was a police officer in my first career, for 14+ years

[21:10:30] John:
I left the badge in 1990 and moved to ATL from JAX, FL

[21:10:43] CC:
Evening ... *G* get the greetings out of the way ... and we'll stay on track w/o them as though we were in a "real presentation"

[21:10:43] John:
I became active in the ATL life/scene in 1991

[21:11:12] John:
I present for NCSF, National Coalition For Sexual Freedom

[21:11:16] John:
for the past 3 years,

[21:11:31] John:
specifically .. the Law Enforcement Out reach program

[21:13:53] CC:
I do have a question if this is the time :)

[21:14:20] John:
yes?

[21:14:46] John:
if there are no other introductions, go ahead

[21:14:53] CC:
Granted much of what we do is "illegal" ...so what specifically would you say would be the best advice you could give someone with regards to interaction with the autorities?

[21:15:14] evilbratchild:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[21:15:26] John:
let me first broach the 'illegal' aspect

[21:15:34] John:
hello evilbratchld

[21:15:46] John:
what we do is between consenting adults.

[21:16:02] evilbratchild:
hey, it's greenie :)

[21:16:07] John:
some states, nay, most states ... do not offer one to grant permission

[21:16:20] John:
to have a battery/assault, etc to be performed

[21:16:29] John:
hey greenie!!! huggles!!!

[21:16:41] evilbratchild:
woohoo, i got huggled

[21:16:46] John:
therefore, if we are presented with what we do

[21:16:49] evilbratchild:
<< gonna listen now :)

[21:16:53] John:
in a legal sense

[21:17:03] John:
we are engaging in adult sexual games

[21:17:13] CC:
Welcome to BRC Chat! Please note we are in a discussion about "What to do when the cops come knocking" ... If you have a question .... please state you have a question and you will be called on in turn.

[21:17:18] John:
and the fact that what we do is consentual

[21:17:48] John:
NCSF has a 90 minute seminar/demo regarding

[21:17:54] John:
domestic violence and BDsm

[21:18:16] John:
what each is .. and how to respond to accusations, if made

[21:18:37] Mist:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[21:18:37] John:
IF you are met with a police officer regarding what we do

[21:18:48] erin:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[21:18:50] John:
be honest in your answers

[21:18:58] John:
but do NOT embellish, or add, anything

[21:19:03] John:
if asked what are you doing?

[21:19:17] John:
the answer should be " we are engaged in consentual adult sex games:

[21:19:29] John:
truthfulness is paramount

[21:19:41] John:
once a person is caught in a lie, no matter how small or trivial

[21:19:42] CC:
Can you give an example please?

[21:19:54] John:
anything else you have said, or will say, is now tainted

[21:20:04] Mist:
<Enters the Dungeon.> <just sitting here>

[21:20:12] John:
the best example of the worst answer is

[21:20:15] John:
what are you doing ??

[21:20:22] John:
response: NOthing, officer

[21:20:44] John:
when he/she can see the toys or the flushed faces or whatever evidence that you have just been playing

[21:20:53] CC:
*one small note* Please refresh by either hitting talk or refresh top or you will "fall out of the room"

[21:21:15] John:
oh my .. ok .. thank you

[21:21:25] CC:
(ooops about every 5 min or so)

[21:22:50] evilbratchild:
i have a question

[21:23:22] CC:
I supsect you are up ... go for it evilbratchild

[21:23:41] John:
yes?

[21:24:10] evilbratchild:
a concerned neighbor calls 911 to report a domestic violence disturbance because ya end up getting carried away and making too much noise... your answers remain the same?

[21:24:26] leggy:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[21:24:35] John:
hello/welcome leggy

[21:24:43] TenderDomd:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[21:24:44] John:
in the case of a DV response

[21:24:52] evilbratchild:
*slurps leggy*

[21:24:57] John:
there will be at least 2 possbily 4 officers responding

[21:24:59] leggy:
thank you *slips into a quiet corner to listen*

[21:25:16] John:
IF you have the opportunity to both answer the door, do so

[21:25:26] CC:
Welcome to BRC Chat! Please note we are in a discussion about "What to do when the cops come knocking" ... If you have a question .... please state you have a question and you will be called on in turn.

[21:25:36] John:
and then, yes, the answer is still the same

[21:25:44] John:
you are engaged in consentual adult sex games

[21:25:52] CC:
*listens*

[21:26:02] John:
the main diff between Domestic Violence and BDsm play

[21:26:20] John:
is DV suspects are ashamed of what they do

[21:26:30] John:
and DV victims are embarassed that they are a victim

[21:26:39] John:
in BDsm, we are neither suspect nor victim

[21:26:51] John:
offer yourselves to talk to the officers

[21:26:57] John:
be truthful in what you say

[21:27:09] John:
and answer ONLY the question, do not go into details

[21:27:17] CC:
Oh that is an outstanding point and I dont think I've ever heard it put quite like that

[21:27:17] John:
unlesss asked specifically for details

[21:27:32] John:
remember .. you are both separated

[21:27:36] John:
and if asked for details

[21:27:42] John:
you will each give the SAME details

[21:27:50] John:
something else that does not happen in DV cases

[21:28:15] John:
and be sure to keep "consentual' very alive in your dialogue

[21:28:18] evilbratchild:
ok

[21:28:25] evilbratchild:
another question

[21:28:28] John:
everyting that we are doing, officer, we both choose to particpate in

[21:28:44] John:
done, unless additional needed.

[21:28:59] CC:
Hold that thought ... :)

[21:30:29] CC:
this approach would apply at home/apt/hotel etc correct? You mentioned a key phrase that would raise eyebrows ... is there one that would put the officers more at ease?

[21:30:46] mori:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[21:31:22] CC:
Welcome to BRC Chat! Please note we are in a discussion about "What to do when the cops come knocking" ... If you have a question .... please state you have a question and you will be called on in turn.

[21:31:35] John:
hello and welcome mori

[21:31:42] John:
hello TD

[21:31:49] leggy:
being fully dressed might help

[21:32:00] John:
yes, that would apply at any location

[21:32:04] leggy:
oops, sorry ... didnt mean to type that out loud

[21:32:07] mori:
hello.....ok.....thank you for having me here

[21:32:19] John:
if not fully dressed, at least covered with a long sleeve robe

[21:32:41] John:
reduce the opportunity for the officer to SEE any of the whip/spanking/etc marks

[21:32:49] John:
THAT will cause problems

[21:32:59] John:
another reason to not strike in the 'daily seen' areas of the body

[21:34:23] John:
leggy, that is a good point, thank you for typing it

[21:35:07] Mist:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[21:35:10] John:
that is a good point, too ...

[21:35:25] CC:
Sometimes while it may SEEM common sense .. in that moment common sense may be the last thing that comes to mind

[21:35:26] John:
when you play, be sure to keep a terry robe handy for all players involved

[21:35:27] Mist:
<Enters the Dungeon.> <just sitting here>

[21:35:30] John:
one, it is good for coverup

[21:35:37] John:
but, it is also good for aftercare

[21:35:50] John:
yes, that is very true.

[21:36:01] John:
when approached by uniforms, common sense seems to disappear

[21:36:08] CC:
Ms evilbratchild your question???

[21:36:26] evilbratchild:
thanks

[21:37:18] evilbratchild:
alot of people have children... say the same concerned neighbor mentions that there are kids in the house... now, this is assuming that the kids aren't able to hear or have access to any of the goings-on.. they're asleep and in a section of the house they can't hear...

[21:37:29] evilbratchild:
does that make it stickier?

[21:38:27] John:
yes, it does ...

[21:38:46] John:
personally, my <former police ofcer> advise is not to play with the kids even in the house

[21:38:55] John:
why even tempt that problem

[21:39:08] John:
but, in the case ... the children ARE there

[21:39:23] John:
same thing .. though

[21:39:43] John:
when the officers arrive at the door .. offer yourself to the officer fo r the interview

[21:39:44] TenderDomd:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[21:39:50] CC:
while I certainly would not attempt to answer from John's point of view I do know that from DFCS aspect it can bring some issues most would not wish to tread on

[21:40:11] John:
if there are children in the house, and the officer wants to see/talk to them

[21:40:20] John:
that is fine .. get the kids, and let them talk

[21:40:39] John:
yes .. exactly, CC

[21:40:50] John:
why my suggestion is to play when children are not in the house

[21:41:08] John:
mori had to reboot .. she'll be back

[21:41:26] John:
I would, suspect, though, if you have nosy neighbors

[21:41:32] John:
who might call the police

[21:41:47] CC:
or "unobservable and non vocal" play ... there are a lot of D/s things that can go on without being overt

[21:41:48] John:
I suggest that you < generic> make as best friends with them as you can

[21:41:56] John:
you might get a babysitter for your 'night out'

[21:42:06] evilbratchild:
i can see what you're saying, but some of us don't have the option of just not having the kids there, and if you're in a long term D/s relationship, just not playing doesn't seem to be that viable an option

[21:42:17] John:
therefore, instead of them peeping on your activity

[21:42:21] John:
they aer watching the children

[21:42:38] John:
I fully understand

[21:42:57] John:
I do not play in my home with my 15yr girl in the house

[21:43:08] John:
because of that, I have not played in a long time

[21:43:36] CC:
*chuckles* when we would have "block parties" numbering in the hundreds of people, live band, pig on the grill ... we ALWAYS asked the neighbors on either side! (saved us tons of trouble having them in "our camp" so as to speak ... and in many ways this is the same

[21:44:02] John:
that is someting that I speak of, and suggest, when I talk about home parties

[21:44:17] evilbratchild:
*grin* my neighbors have never called the police... they just move out after 3 or 4 months

[21:44:19] John:
invite the neighbors to a party/picnic a month or two

[21:44:28] John:
before your planned party

[21:44:38] John:
let them know that you are often having parties

[21:45:09] mori:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[21:45:10] CC:
sometimes "sleep overs" at friends work .. or trade out w/another family or adjust the TYPE of play one does when children are home ... even they sleep

[21:45:56] John:
yes, a good idea

[21:46:12] evilbratchild:
i've never had a problem with either the kids or the neighbors, to be honest, but that's one of those hypotheticals that would effect me IF it were to come about

[21:46:47] John:
maybe, a network of people can be arranged in a local area

[21:46:55] CC:
Now I have a question for everyone here .... have you considered that the cops come knocking and you ARE taken in custody. I believe it is Colorado that if there is a DV call BOTH parties are taken in .... have any of you considered who you would call? Do you have an attorney that would recognize your name if you called him at 2 am??????

[21:46:56] John:
to have a 'rotating' sleep over

[21:47:05] leggy:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[21:47:06] John:
adults that we normally interact with

[21:47:16] John:
who know what we all do

[21:47:36] John:
each parent couple can 'host' the sleepover, letting the others play

[21:47:53] leggy:
<Has left the Dungeon>

[21:48:04] John:
that is a point, CC, that I stress when giving the DV seminar

[21:48:25] John:
In MOST states, if there is any visable sign of a battery

[21:48:30] John:
at least one person is going to jail

[21:48:35] CC:
I really like "preventative" maintenance ... what to do to avoid and then what to do "if"

[21:48:56] John:
that is why, when we play, to stay away from marks on neck/face/hands/arms, etc

[21:49:03] John:
and to cover up before you talk with the visitors

[21:49:17] CC:
*nods*

[21:50:30] Mist:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[21:50:30] CC:
You and I had talked about a "bust card" and "What about in a traffic stop ... say your trunk is full of toys(or back seat) perhaps even in a gun case .... What is the best interaction there?

[21:50:53] John:
thank you for that questions

[21:50:55] Mist:
<Enters the Dungeon.> <just sitting here>

[21:51:08] John:
in a traffic stop situation ... there can be ANYTHING in the trunk

[21:51:20] John:
and the officer does NOT have a right to go into your locked trunk

[21:51:38] John:
unless he has found something illegal <outside of the traffic violation>

[21:51:49] John:
if in the back seat

[21:51:53] John:
my suggestion is to

[21:52:00] CC:
So it is then advisable to put our "things" in the trunk rather than say the backseat

[21:52:01] John:
put the toys into a 'common

[21:52:05] John:
bag to transport

[21:52:14] John:
I use a baseball bat bag, an archery case

[21:52:17] John:
a rifle case

[21:52:22] John:
as well as sport bags

[21:52:29] John:
yes, VERY advisabel

[21:52:33] John:
<sp>

[21:52:53] mori:
question

[21:52:56] John:
the officer has no right to search your car

[21:53:11] John:
and if he asks .. do NOT grant that permission

[21:53:24] John:
for the most part, the officer is 'fishing' for more

[21:53:39] CC:
even the interior?

[21:53:41] John:
question has been recognized

[21:53:49] John:
yes, even the interior ..

[21:53:59] John:
no right, at all, to search your personal property

[21:54:03] John:
UNLESS!!!!!

[21:54:09] John:
he SEEs something illegal

[21:54:18] John:
like a weapon, or potential weapon

[21:54:20] John:
drugs

[21:54:30] John:
if in an open bottle state, an open bottle of liquor

[21:54:36] CC:
*nods to mori*

[21:54:45] John:
otherwise, he cannot search your car

[21:55:14] CC:
so refuse ..but do so politely

[21:55:17] CC:
and firmly

[21:55:35] John:
VERY politely, yes ... ask the officer why he wants to serach

[21:55:41] mori:
well......when i went thru the st louis airport.....was some time ago....they were doing a car check on every 5th vehicle.....they did have the right at that point to search......luckly was just full of stuff i was moving for a friend.....however....if you have a SUV.....there is no trunk to lock up.....and if they have an idea something is up they can search witout permission just have to have a reasonable something isnt that correct?

[21:55:44] John:
what is his probable cause

[21:56:20] John:
in the case of an SUV/camaro/stationwagon

[21:56:25] John:
or any vehicle with a trunk

[21:56:36] John:
the individual has the onus of protection

[21:56:50] John:
if you are transporting something that will raise the curiosity of an offiver

[21:56:56] John:
no matter what the reason for the stop

[21:56:59] John:
cover it with a blanket

[21:57:07] John:
or secure it in a pc of luggage

[21:57:22] John:
at the airports, they are looking for explosives and other terrorist marks

[21:57:26] John:
if they see your toy bag

[21:57:33] mori:
yes but not when it comes to national safety.....and private property.....they do have the right do they not to search or not allow you on to it?..Would it not be adventages to just tell them at that point?

[21:57:34] John:
they still do not have the right to search your car

[21:57:52] John:
if they say that they do, politely refuse, ask them for thier probable cause

[21:57:59] kevin:
<Enters the Dungeon>

[21:58:05] CC:
would it be advisable to have lock on your bags so that IF you were stopped and there WAS a search conducted without your consent it would show forced entry?

[21:58:09] John:
and you will follow/lead them to the judge, so a warrant can be obtained

[21:58:22] CC:
Welcome to BRC Chat! Please note we are in a discussion about "What to do when the cops come knocking" ... If you have a question .... please state you have a question and you will be called on in turn.

[21:58:34] John:
hello/welcome kevin

[21:58:51] John:
for an added step of protection, yes

[21:59:10] John:
but, not necessary. The officer will have to prove he had probable cause to search the vehicle

[21:59:15] John:
to find your toys

[21:59:22] John:
which, by the way, are most likey NOT illegal

[21:59:29] John:
unless you are carrying a weapon without permit

[21:59:36] John:
or you are carrying a knife that is spring loaded

[21:59:46] John:
or maybe needles you do not have a Rx for

[21:59:47] CC:
I hadnt thought of offering to follow/lead them to a judge to get a warrant ...

[22:00:04] evilbratchild:
ok, time for bed.. night ya'all... and thanks John & CC

[22:00:20] Mist:
Night

[22:00:25] John:
that puts the officer on notice .. in a polite way.. that you know your rights

[22:00:33] John:
night, greenie .. huggles

[22:00:48] CC:
n'night ms evilbratchild ... :) do come again and dont forget about the discussion board

[22:01:13] mori:
goodnight evilbratchild

[22:01:24] John:
if you look into my toybag, nothing is illegal to own

[22:01:29] erin:
<Enters the Dungeon.> good night.

[22:01:34] John:
the only curious items might be my handcuffs

[22:01:35] John:
or my singletail

[22:01:41] John:
neither is illlegal to possess

[22:02:13] TenderDomd:
<Enters the Dungeon.> what about needles ? illegal to have ??

[22:02:23] John:
wb TD

[22:02:41] CC:
They didnt use to be .. but I suppose that could have changed

[22:02:46] TenderDomd:
tanks ... multasking is a *itch lol

[22:02:56] John:
if they are hypodermic needles, yes, they are considered a controlled substance

[22:03:14] John:
GA might read the law differently than

[22:04:19] CC:
I wasnt sure if it was just the needles or the whole disposable needle/syringe that might have issues. I mostly have the accupuncture needles which were readily available for sale in SC

[22:04:28] John:
that is an item that if carried, should be carried in a locked box/bag

[22:04:41] John:
accupuncture needles are different

[22:05:26] CC:
*nods* while I "LIKE" them ... they are not my primary kinky fun

[22:05:42] John:
<-- does not do needles

[22:06:02] CC:
:)

[22:06:13] CC:
any questions or comments????

[22:06:48] mori:
well.....knowing me if they asked i would just tell them what was in the bag

[22:07:09] John:
not a good idea

[22:07:13] John:
again .. IF asked ...

[22:07:26] John:
no need to say more than what is necessary

[22:07:31] John:
if asked, waht is in the bag

[22:07:31] TenderDomd:
getting away from normal needle and geting using accupuncture ones more .. with wand .. those are easy hidden but alway worry when i give home .. half tackle box is needles

[22:07:35] John:
they are my toys

[22:07:36] John:
period

[22:07:42] kevin:
What time did chat start tonight? Has the schedule changed? (Hi John)

[22:07:45] John:
the officer has no need to know more

[22:08:02] CC:
kevin ... 9-11 pm eastern

[22:08:14] John:
TD, if not done, I would lock the box when transporting it

[22:08:22] John:
welcome, kevin

[22:08:57] CC:
if any of you would like to be added to the periodic(VERY seldom) BRC UPdate email ... just drop me a note at editor@thebrc.net

[22:09:10] CC:
I promise I WONT fill up your mailbox

[22:10:19] CC:
John ... would you please post the url for the NCSF and go a little more indepth about what we could find on the site?

[22:11:14] CC:
pssssssssst John ... btw .. *G* you could always get your daughter overnight babysitting jobs on the weekend ... give YOU some play time

[22:11:19] John:
http://www.ncsfreedom.org

[22:11:43] John:
you will find current scene activity around the country

[22:12:18] kevin:
Question?

[22:13:05] John:
you will find projects, resources, volunteer opporturnity

[22:13:08] John:
yes, kevin?

[22:13:25] kevin:
Generally speaking, is what is acceptable when dealing with law enforcement covered by federal, state, or local laws?

[22:13:31] John:
I have tried to talk her into babysitting

[22:13:37] John:
she does not want to do it

[22:13:50] John:
another 6 months and she will be fine

[22:14:13] John:
kevin, I cannot answer that .. it is a rather broad question.

[22:14:25] John:
do you have a specific instance/

[22:15:07] kevin:
No, I just see a lot of recommendations made

[22:15:22] Mist:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[22:15:24] kevin:
And worry that it's based on a law that doesn't apply to my area

[22:15:40] Mist:
<Enters the Dungeon.> <just sitting here>

[22:16:07] TenderDomd:
brb checking on wax

[22:16:30] erin:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[22:16:30] kevin:
OK here's one: If I had a locked bag in the car and the officer demands I unlock it, do I refuse or protest but unlock it anyway?

[22:16:52] Mist:
candlemaking.

[22:17:01] erin:
<Enters the Dungeon.> sorry folks

[22:17:20] kevin:
Not sure how much goes directly to the constitution and how much allowance for local variance there is

[22:17:25] John:
your constitutional rights prohibit that officer from entering your locked property

[22:17:32] John:
without warrant or probable cause

[22:17:47] John:
that is federal .. touches ALL levels of police

[22:18:04] kevin:
So if the officer states he has probable cause, I should unlock it?

[22:18:09] CC:
and frankly even if I didnt have ANYTHING in the trunk to hide it is STILL nobodys business

[22:18:15] John:
you would refuse to open it unless he states his probable cause

[22:18:24] John:
or presents you with a warrant to search that bag

[22:18:42] John:
he has to tell you WHAT his probable cause it

[22:18:51] John:
and I'd love to hear what he says .. by the way

[22:19:13] John:
but, you still refuse, and if he persists,

[22:19:25] John:
volunteer to follow/or lead him to the nearest judge

[22:19:36] John:
to obtain a seach warrant for your locked bag

[22:20:09] John:
be careful here .. and no allegations, plear

[22:20:11] John:
please

[22:20:19] John:
but, if the officer sees, in plain view

[22:20:31] John:
some weed, white powder, open alcohol bottles

[22:20:33] erin:
<just sitting here>

[22:20:43] John:
that MAY give him reason to search the interior of the vehicle

[22:20:49] CC:
A private investigator I know rubbed some officers the wrong way when he was out of state ... they asked to search his vehicle and he refused. They asked him if he had any illegal weapons. (yeah like someone was gonna admit that) He told them he did not have anything illegal and refused the search. They got another vehicle there and they requested again to search. He told them that they did not have probable cause and until they got a warrant they could not do so. They were not willing to get a warrant so he was eventually free to go

[22:20:51] mori:
question

[22:20:52] John:
but it still does NOT give him right to the locked bag

[22:21:19] John:
exactly the right way to go, CC ....

[22:21:53] John:
Georgia does not have an open containier law < that I know of> where as Illinois does

[22:21:59] John:
yes, mori?

[22:22:03] CC:
mori ... your question?

[22:22:15] mori:
what about flying with a toy bag?

[22:22:29] kevin:
Got it. And even if I disagree with his probable cause, I still open it and then use the poor probable cause late in court, yes? I wouldn't actually try to physically prevent an officer from doing something - sounds kind of risky

[22:22:49] John:
kevin, no you cannot go backwards

[22:22:56] John:
once you submit, and voluntarily open the bag

[22:23:07] John:
you have no more rights to privacy for the contents of the bag

[22:23:26] John:
flying with a toy bag is a whole new 'bag' since 9/11

[22:23:33] kevin:
FYI sorry about being late, I was expecting the Velvet Glove at 9 Central.

[22:23:41] John:
I am flying this weekend, and I will NOT be bringing my metal toys

[22:23:46] John:
only leather, wood or plastic

[22:24:05] John:
and I will not be carrying any luggage on the plane

[22:24:06] kevin:
OK, so I make him break into it?

[22:24:11] John:
no need to invite an inquiry

[22:24:13] mori:
so i shouldnt bring the cuffs?

[22:24:22] John:
no, he does NOT break into it

[22:24:27] John:
he knows that is illegal

[22:24:39] John:
if he wants in the bag, he must have probable cause or a warrant

[22:25:15] John:
no, mori, you do not bring teh cuffs

[22:25:19] CC:
1 & 3 Tuesdays Velvet Glove ... 2 & 4 th Tueday Dungeon Chat ... all under the umbrella of BRC CHAT .. :) IF there is a 5th tuesday ... it is open chat w/o moderator/presentor

[22:25:23] John:
you will find yourself in the local jail real fast

[22:25:41] John:
those are specifically forbidden in the cabin of aircraft by FAA rules

[22:25:53] John:
the USMarshal will get to know you very well

[22:26:09] kevin:
Thanks CC

[22:26:13] mori:
smiles not those kind of cuffs....was meaning the leather ones and the suspenion cuffs

[22:26:33] mori:
even if they are in the checked luggage?

[22:26:57] CC:
I did hear a good suggestion for flying w/toys etc ... rather than LOCK your suitcase use those plastic slip ties ... they can easily be cut as opposed to a lock that has to be broken and may result in your suitcase being cut if you cannot produce the key

[22:26:59] John:
if you want to bring those cuffs, be sure they are in your luggage that you check into the underbelly of the plane

[22:27:06] John:
do not have them in your carryon bag

[22:27:38] John:
actually ... FAA is requesting that baggage no longer be locked

[22:27:42] John:
for access, if needed

[22:27:54] John:
but, yes, twist ties or nylon ties are a good idea

[22:28:00] John:
<mine will be twist ties>

[22:29:25] CC:
twisting the night away

[22:29:55] John:
in one fashion, or another, yes

[22:30:10] kevin:
I've heard of people putting a lock on, unlocked, with a note for security to lock it once it has passed the search point. And the bags were locked when they claimed them. Nylon ties sound good too, since you know the bag was searched.

[22:30:14] CC:
btw John ... I'm gonna find you somewhere later when a darlin friend of mind comes down from Canada after xmas ... you might enjoy our scene at 1763 ... will probably take the next month to plan

[22:31:11] TenderDomd:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[22:31:28] CC:
Frankly I dont NEED many toys to "play" .. they are the frosting to the cake ...but it IS nice to know what your rights are

[22:31:42] John:
kevin, that is for carryon baggage. That should not be locked anyway. it is with you all the time

[22:31:49] CC:
Being uninformed about your rights is just as bad as not having safe sex

[22:31:53] Mist:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[22:32:08] John:
I am referring to baggage that is given to the curbside guy for storage in the bottom of the plnae

[22:32:15] John:
that stuff gets xrayed too

[22:32:24] Mist:
<Enters the Dungeon.> Nod

[22:32:29] kevin:
No, the folks I talked to said they did it with their checked luggage.

[22:32:37] John:
CC, please do find me .. that sounds like a great time

[22:33:22] John:
oh, ok .. I misread

[22:33:25] John:
thank you for clarity

[22:34:07] CC:
John .. *S* wont be "all that" ... more an evening of artistic bondage

[22:34:27] John:
it will be better than I could do

[22:35:35] erin:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[22:35:38] CC:
http://www.geocities.com/c_chrysalis/ele5.jpg this pic is w/the bound one's permission ...

[22:36:20] erin:
<Enters the Dungeon.> sorry again..

[22:37:58] CC:
Any comments on the political climate and lifestyle? What do you personally see in the future?

[22:39:01] CC:
oh my we all got quiet!

[22:39:23] erin:
i think with the advent of the internet, folks are exploring more from the anonymity of their own homes and i suspect that we will continue to see an influx of people into our community over the next few years... it will be interesting to see how the community handles the interest that is generated.

[22:39:29] John:
sorry ... family

[22:39:45] CC:
life in the big league .. happens to us all sooner or later

[22:39:45] John:
the political climate

[22:39:56] John:
until we can get some kinky people into elected office

[22:40:04] John:
we will continue to have an uphill climb

[22:40:07] kevin:
I see a stronger congressional shift to the Republicans, especially once redistricting occurs in Texas.

[22:40:21] CC:
and are you talking about openly kinky???

[22:40:45] John:
yes, it has to be openly kinky

[22:40:54] John:
just like what happned with the gay/les community

[22:41:06] John:
once the open ones started running for office

[22:41:20] John:
the laws and rights are beginning to swing to protect them

[22:42:47] CC:
I wonder how many have "nothing to lose" where they can openly step into that kind of criticism and where the $$$ come to back them

[22:43:14] John:
it will be difficulty

[22:43:15] John:
but,

[22:43:24] CC:
seems to me that there would need to be a pretty strong grass roots movement to support that kind of risk

[22:43:25] John:
the more women and men who are into the life/community

[22:43:36] John:
those already in political office

[22:43:45] John:
decide that they are losing thier freedoms and rights

[22:44:09] John:
we will begin to have a voice in the protection

[22:44:23] John:
it will happen .. just not this decade, I am sorry to believe

[22:44:43] John:
yes, there will be

[22:45:07] John:
and groups like NCSF and smaller supporting groups in the cities in teh country need to come together

[22:45:10] John:
and become an alliance

[22:45:19] John:
<doggone, where is my flower-power shirt>

[22:45:20] CC:
Guess I wont see it in my life time :(

[22:45:48] John:
I may not see it in mine, either ...

[22:45:51] CC:
I was hoping to locate a Canadian equivilant to the NCSF .... and havent been successful in finding one

[22:46:02] John:
but I do want the next generation, or the following one

[22:46:13] John:
to enjoy this adult sexual fun without fear of retribution

[22:46:35] CC:
I have heard from several wanting to know if there was, or how to get one started.

[22:46:53] CC:
Oh now THAT IS a grande plan ....

[22:47:18] John:
I am not aware of one in canada

[22:47:25] Mist:
<Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>

[22:47:37] John:
I would suggest to drop a line to the NCSF chair about htat

[22:47:43] John:
I will try to remember to ask this weekend

[22:47:45] Mist:
<Enters the Dungeon.> drat

[22:49:07] CC:
That would be great John ... if they know of a canadian resourse I'd be happy to pass it on

[22:49:33] CC:
and if there isnt one that they know of ... perhpas they might be willing to share some input on how to get a northern version going

[22:49:40] CC:
Please do let me know?

[22:51:01] John:
yes, I will let you konw

[22:51:02] John:
know

[22:51:12] John:
I made a note in my presentaion file

[22:51:23] kevin:
I tried National Coalition for Sexual Freedom Canada in Google

[22:51:36] kevin:
Didn't get any National things, but two local groups so far

[22:51:49] kevin:
Sex Workers Alliance of Toronto

[22:52:00] kevin:
and Sex Workers Alliance of Vancouver

[22:52:15] kevin:
see http://www.free-market.net/directorybycategory/organizations/T14.3/ for contact info

[22:53:45] John:
very good research, kevin, than kyou

[22:53:57] CC:
If I'm not mistaken that gets one back to the U.S. ncsf site

[22:54:28] kevin:
Page title is Porn, Prostitution, and Sexual Freedom Institutes, Organizations, and Clubs

[22:54:45] CC:
The Sex Workers Alliance however may have a pretty good handle on some aspects that could grow

[22:55:13] kevin:
Yes, it has links for US and Europe also

[22:56:27] CC:
Nods ... Still in all for the most part being a sex worker, while not a problem, can muddy the waters for many people

[22:56:53] CC:
the sex for $$$ can make a lot of people very self-righteous

[22:57:32] CC:
I look forward to hearing from you John ... and thank you again for sharing your time.

[22:57:39] kevin:
Agreed, definitely easier to get support from vanillas for private activity than commercial.

[22:58:02] kevin:
OK, time for bed. Nice talking with y'all.

[22:58:12] CC:
Please pop in periodically and check out the BRC discussion board ... your input is welcome and encouraged

[22:58:46] John:
thank you, CC, for inviting me

[22:58:56] John:
I look forward to the next visit

[22:59:03] Mist:
Very interesting.

[22:59:28] John:
thank you, Mist, for joining us

[22:59:33] CC:
This has been a VERY long day for me and I know I have someone hovering in the wings waiting for me to set up a website for them

[22:59:36] John:
thank you, Kevin for being here

[22:59:41] kevin:
<Has left the Dungeon>

[22:59:53] CC:
so g'night all and hope to see you around on subsequent tuesdays

[23:00:04] John:
good night, all .. be well, play safe

[23:00:14] CC:
*slips out*

[23:00:17] Mist:
Night all. Be well.

[23:00:28] Mist:
<Has left the Dungeon>

[23:00:54] mori:
<Enters the Dungeon>