[21:09:08] Justin: must be a big name you got tonight
[21:09:32] CC: *chuckles* I was wondering if I didnt post a topic if anyone would show up
[21:09:34] gentle: <Enters the Dungeon>
[21:09:34] CC: ha ha
[21:09:39] CC: well dang
[21:09:42] CC: a trio!
[21:09:54] gentle: hello everyone!
[21:10:19] gentle: *lol* ze trio du jour.
[21:10:29] Justin: and two females at that! :)
[21:10:40] CC: actually the uposted topic is "submission"
[21:10:46] CC: lucky you *S*
[21:11:04] CC: btw .. congrats on getting the numbers up to bring the $$$ down for LockDown
[21:11:05] gentle: *grin* lucky Justin!
[21:11:19] Justin: I'd rather be lucky than good any day
[21:11:20] danni_slave: <Enters the Dungeon>
[21:11:31] CC: evening danni
[21:11:39] CC: tonights topic is submission
[21:11:40] danni_slave: good evening A/all
[21:11:51] danni_slave: good evening Ma'am
[21:12:00] gentle: evening danni.... *s*
[21:12:02] Justin: hey danni :)
[21:12:08] CC: Justin danni is up in your old stamping ground ... greenville
[21:12:13] Justin: this is looking better all the time
[21:12:22] danni_slave: hi Justin Sir
[21:12:25] Justin: yeah? I used to live off pelham road :)
[21:12:38] danni_slave: hello gentle
[21:12:40] Justin: just "Justin" is fine danni :)
[21:12:41] CC: I'm gonna toss a couple questions out there ...
[21:12:44] CC: just "cause"
[21:12:57] danni_slave: live in easley
[21:13:02] CC: when one says "submission" what is the definition you attach to it?
[21:13:19] CC: well that isnt ALL that far from greenville :)
[21:13:38] Justin: "one who knowingly and willing places their will in the hands of another to do with as they will"
[21:13:39] danni_slave: ceeding control to ones Superior
[21:13:58] Justin: yep the newest LOCK board member is from Easley
[21:14:09] danni_slave: doing it willingly
[21:14:10] CC: *listens and nods*
[21:14:19] danni_slave: really mmmmmmmmmmmmm
[21:14:56] CC: okay here is my "kicker question" .... does a dominant in fact "submit" anything to a relationship as well?
[21:15:08] Justin: are you part of LOCK yet danni?
[21:15:26] Justin: yes
[21:15:37] CC: I've been telling him bout it
[21:15:49] CC: can you expand on that Justin?
[21:15:50] danni_slave: yes Ma'am it is after all a relationship a Dom/me submit His/Her willingness to control
[21:15:56] danni_slave: not yet Sir
[21:16:50] Justin: and take rsponsibility for that control
[21:17:39] CC: submission to the duties and responsiblity for control of one in their charge/care/collar?
[21:18:23] CC: Over the years is anyone has been on the net they have seen the levels of submission ....
[21:19:02] Justin: yes..and themselves,,,but really? dominants are just sgeneral stage extras, while tops are stage extras for play/SM
[21:19:21] CC: The following is intended as a loose classification. It was written by Diane Vera and published in Lesbian S/M Safety Manual, from Alyson Press, Copyright 1984 and 1988. and is found on the net at: http://www.sirbamm.com/submission.html
[21:19:45] CC: 9 Levels of submission 1. THE OUTRIGHT NON-SUBMISSIVE MASOCHIST or KINKY SENSUALIST. Not into servitude, humiliation or giving up control; just pain and/or spiced-up sensuality, on the masochist's own terms and for the masochist's own direct pleasure (i.e. turned on solely/mainly by one's own bodily sensations rather than by being "used" to gratify one's partner's sadism).
[21:20:08] CC: 2. PSEUDO-SUBMISSIVE NON-SLAVE. Not into even playing "slave," but into other "submissive" role-playing, e.g. schoolteacher scenes, infantilism, "forced" transvestitism. Usually into humiliation, but NOT into servitude, even in play. Dictates the scene to a large degree.
[21:20:39] CC: 3. PSEUDO-SUBMISSIVE PLAY SLAVE. Likes to play at being a slave; likes to feel subservient; may in some cases like to feel one is being "used" to gratify partner's sadism; may even really serve the dominant in some ways, but only on the "slave's" own terms. Dictates the scene to a large degree; often fetishistic (e.g. foot worshippers).
[21:21:13] CC: 4. TRUE SUBMISSIVE NON-SLAVE. Really gives up control (only temporarily and within agreed-upon limits), but gets her/his main satisfaction from aspects of submission other than serving or being used by the dominant. Usually turned on by suspense, vulnerability, and/or giving up reasonability. Doesn't dictate the scene except in very general terms, but still seek mainly her/his own direct/pleasure (rather than getting one's pleasure mainly from pleasing the dominant).
[21:21:52] CC: 5. TRUE SUBMISSIVE PLAY SLAVE. Really gives up control (though only temporarily; only during brief "scenes" and within limits) and gets main satisfaction from serving/being used by dominant-but only for FUN purposes, usually erotic. May/may not be into pain. If so, is turned on by pain indirectly, i.e. enjoys being the object of one's partner's sadism, on which the submissive places very few requirements or restrictions.
[21:22:11] CC: 6. UNCOMMITTED SHORT-TERM BUT MORE THAN PLAY SEMI-SLAVE. Really gives up control (usually within limits); wants to serve and be used by the dominant; wants to provide practical/non erotic as well as fun/erotic services; but only when the "slave" is in the mood. May even act as a full-time slave for, say, several days at a time, but is free to quit at any time (or at the end of the agreed upon several days). May or may not have long-term relationship with one's Mistress, but, either way, the "slave" has the final say over when she will serve.
[21:22:24] CC: 7. PART-TIME CONSENSUAL-BUT REAL SLAVE Has an ongoing commitment to an owner/slave relationship and regards oneself as the dominant's property at all times. Wants to obey and please Dom(me) in all aspects of life-practical/non erotic and fun/erotic. Devotes most of time to other commitments (e.g. job) but Dom(me) has first pick of the slave's free time.
[21:22:42] CC: 8. FULL-TIME LIVE IN CONSENSUAL SLAVE. Within no more than a few broad limits/requirements, the slave regards herself/himself as existing solely for the Dom(me)'s pleasure/well being. Slave in turn expects to be regarded as a prized possession. Not much different from the situation of the traditional housewife, except that within the S/M world the slave's position is more likely to be fully consensual, especially if the slave is male. Within the S/M world, a full time "slave" arrangement is entered into with an explicit awareness of the magnitude carefully, with more awareness of the magnitude of power that is being given up, and hence is usually entered into much more carefully, with more awareness of the possible dangers, and with much clearer and more specific agreements than usually precede the traditional marriage.
[21:22:57] CC: 9. CONSENSUAL TOTAL SLAVE WITH NO LIMITS. A common fantasy ideal which probably doesn't exist in real life (except in authoritarian religious cults and other situations where the "consent" is induced by brainwashing and/or social or economic pressures, and hence isn't fully consensual). A few S/M purists will insist that you aren't really a slave unless you're willing to do absolutely anything for your Dom(me), with no limits at all. I've met a few people who claimed to be no-limit slaves, but in all cases I have reason to doubt the claim.
[21:23:06] CC: Any thoughts on these?
[21:24:19] CC: checks w/Justin and gentle
[21:24:26] gentle: The definitions provide a great way to discuss what each partner is looking for.... sometimes it is hard to define... but these definitions would be a good starting point for discussion. (imho)
[21:25:09] Justin: ummmm nice definitions, most of which I agree with
[21:25:49] CC: I suspect the most of what I find "gets my goat" is that they are described as "levels"
[21:26:08] Justin: what would guess ar the %'s for each level metioned?
[21:26:35] CC: a lot of people in figuring that there are "levels" puts a great deal of ego into which level one can claim to be in
[21:27:04] Justin: right CC, I agree with that as well
[21:27:18] CC: Additionally I question ... that there are "only 9" *lol*
[21:27:24] Justin: so substitute another adjective
[21:27:37] CC: or for that matter one is superior to another
[21:28:15] CC: I did have an interesting chat w/a woman that states she was working for the magazine in which this article was first printed
[21:28:36] gentle: CC ~~ If one is looking at these definitions as "defining" descriptions .... of the varying types of submission... I don't think that is so great. There are just too many variations and flavors of us out there....... however, using the definitions as a tool .... or springboard for thought and discussion... yes I do like them for that.
[21:29:23] CC: There were some objections made at the time about the quantifying of levels and the experience of the person writing the article.
[21:30:01] Justin: gentle is there a definition for dominance or submission then?
[21:30:15] Justin: is there definition to anything?
[21:30:37] gentle: a very good question Justin.... actually very good questions!
[21:30:39] CC: Apparently, according to this person, she went to the editor and said that someone who was in the lifestyle "mere months" was not the best authority in describing the "levels of submission"
[21:31:50] CC: perhaps gentle, definitions are like theories, they can appear correct but are yet unproven, and once proven perhaps yet another theory disproves another ... so is there truth? Perhaps not
[21:32:08] Justin: define lifestyel CC? lol
[21:33:00] Justin: strikes "truth" from "truth, justice and the American way"
[21:33:05] CC: w/regards to the article *lol* when the editor was confronted with that information he said, (not verbatim) It doesnt matter! It's an article and they will read it and throw it away!!! Nobody will ever remember it!
[21:33:12] CC: boy was THAT wrong eh?
[21:34:26] gentle: You know you can breakdown her definitions by areas... and do you think she included all the important ones?
[21:35:04] Justin: it doesn't matter gentle...its still left to the individual lol
[21:35:09] lily: <Enters the Dungeon>
[21:35:39] Justin: hey lily, what you presenthing tonight?
[21:35:48] gentle: *lol* soooo true Justin! ..... Definitions are perhaps in the eye of the beholder?
[21:36:05] lily: evening everyone :)
[21:36:13] CC: nope Justin ...just open chat tonight m'dear
[21:36:22] lily: lol hiya Justin :)
[21:36:26] CC: welcome home from work lily
[21:36:38] Justin: pehaps gentle, the lack of them and the lack of standard also makes what we call a community a lie.....by my definition of course
[21:36:45] lily: ty CC
[21:36:53] CC: just listed the 9 levels of submission .... and the discussion of course is on submission in general?
[21:37:35] CC: I'm sure you've seen them before ... but you can catch them here: http://www.sirbamm.com/submission.html
[21:38:17] gentle: evening lily... *s*
[21:38:48] CC: I probably have the most issues with "level 9" I am not saying those relationships exist ... I do however question the reality and emotional state of it
[21:39:29] lily: evening gentle
[21:39:53] CC: how do you feel about 24/7 totally consensual slaves totally w/o limits
[21:41:04] lily: eeeeeeeeks there is a loaded question CC......personally i KNOW i could never do that, and i have serious doubt whether anyone could
[21:41:04] CC: reposts level 9: CONSENSUAL TOTAL SLAVE WITH NO LIMITS. A common fantasy ideal which probably doesn't exist in real life (except in authoritarian religious cults and other situations where the "consent" is induced by brainwashing and/or social or economic pressures, and hence isn't fully consensual). A few S/M purists will insist that you aren't really a slave unless you're willing to do absolutely anything for your Dom(me), with no limits at all. I've met a few people who claimed to be no-limit slaves, but in all cases I have reason to doubt the claim.
[21:42:00] CC: looks to lily ... you say you could never do that ... but would you want to?
[21:42:39] Justin: which means that any person who is seen as an SM purist is certifiable
[21:43:11] CC: chuckles ... or perhaps had cell space w/the Marquis?
[21:43:24] gentle: CC ~~ well... never say never..... but ... gosh. I wonder how many people raised in a modern Western society could do so?
[21:44:02] lily: good grief CC..........heck no! but thats just me, and i wouldn't want to do it because i seriously can't see what would be in that kind of relationship for me.......
[21:44:35] CC: From my view point ... I cant see what is in it for either side
[21:44:51] CC: except knowing one will ask anything the other will do it
[21:45:31] CC: on the other hand ... I dont want to have to keep pushing rocks up hills either
[21:45:53] CC: what does that make me ... a moderate S/m/D/s Domme?
[21:46:27] lily: i'm sure you've all heard the theory..Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.......following that theory what stops a Dom/me from doing literally "anything" to a sub with that kind of 24/7 9th level relationship?
[21:47:03] Justin: thats true....the dominants are the bad guys to begin with
[21:47:25] CC: hmm tries out ... submission corrupts and absolute submission corrubpts absolutely
[21:47:40] gentle: *lol* Justin!!!
[21:48:12] CC: so then we get around to the D/s dance ... the delicate balance of power (noting that both have power)
[21:49:24] Justin: define power
[21:50:00] Justin: "being able to know that one can influence the outcome of any given situation, to the manner that is desired"
[21:50:18] CC: domination /submission and power... at least in my head ... are intertwined ...
[21:50:37] CC: nods to Justin
[21:51:04] gentle: How so CC?
[21:51:06] CC: that is power ... but w/free will involved as well as consent the outcome is not always a guarentee
[21:51:46] Justin: which is different to me from "authority" which is "being sanctioned to make a decision"
[21:51:55] CC: submission is the energy that feeds the dominant ... and the dominants control feeds the submissive
[21:52:09] CC: good point Justin
[21:52:24] lily: hummmmmmmmmm so perhaps a Dom/me has authority over the sub more than power Justin?
[21:53:09] CC: it is the energy that each have to me that is the "power" perse ... without the give and take the circuit is not complete
[21:53:37] Justin: oh yes, I think so lily, very few actually have a power exchange relationship in my opinion
[21:54:19] CC: oh I am SO glad you brought that up Justin .... I would be so pleased if you would define "power exchange'
[21:54:50] Justin: well I have already defined power and submissiion......
[21:55:26] Justin: the exhange is made once....is not re-exchanged over ane oevre and over and over again, unless your a jay wiseman fan and thus a fan of shitty writing
[21:55:28] Justin: :)
[21:55:56] lily: lol
[21:56:11] CC: it is then the initial giving and receiving of power?
[21:56:39] Justin: the man has safety check list for SM _MIME_ play, for gawd sakes
[21:56:53] CC: rotfl
[21:57:01] CC: oh can I use that one Justin?
[21:57:16] Justin: he _NEGOITATES SM MIME PLAY_
[21:57:20] lily: laughing
[21:57:31] gentle: Justin .... would you mind defining power exchange? I know you have defined them separately.... but I would appreciate hearing your summary of it very much.
[21:58:02] CC: kinda likes Justin when he is in rare form
[21:58:28] CC: <just sitting here>
[21:58:38] lily: me too CC
[21:59:35] lily: <just sitting here>
[21:59:46] Justin: one who turns over thier will to another with faith and trust (no, I will not define "faith" and "trust") that they will be better off for having done so AND one who accepets the responisibility for themselves and another to make the decisions for both, not simply for thir pleasure or want, but for the betterment of their charge, regardless of outcome once it has been accpeted"
[22:01:04] CC: thinks that is the total package ... wonders if I should forward that to Jay ...
[22:01:23] gentle: Likes both Justin's and CC's definitions.
[22:01:32] lily: ok, so within the power exchange the sub has then given the Dom/me authority over them.........
[22:01:42] Justin: not that I have thought about any of this shit, its just off the top of my head
[22:01:50] Justin: no
[22:02:22] CC: *nudges Justin* ... I cant wait to call you Grande Master
[22:02:22] Justin: they have delegated their influence to the dominant........they retain a large degree of their authority
[22:02:24] CC: :)
[22:02:28] CC: *ducks*
[22:02:39] Justin: that was a cheap shot CC LOL
[22:02:55] CC: you KNOW I'm teasing darlin
[22:03:14] lily: ok now i am understanding you Justin :)
[22:03:20] Justin: I gotta go make another dreink. brb
[22:03:28] lily: Grande Master...........hummmmmmmmmm
[22:03:47] CC: actually Justin ... I may not always agree with you but I DO enjoy listening to your point of view as it often makes me re-examine my own views and beliefs
[22:03:56] CC: not just WHAT they are but WHY I have them
[22:04:25] gentle: *lil grin* Isn't it interesting when that happens CC ?
[22:04:29] CC: and to me the WHY is often more important that the WHAT
[22:04:44] CC: what simply isnt enough
[22:05:21] lily: Justin certainly has given me food for thought
[22:05:22] CC: could be one of the reasons I frequently dog something to death trying to discover all the concepts and facets
[22:05:54] gentle: I had that happen to me just today. And, as a result, I realized that I had made an underlying assumption which most likely was not correct.
[22:05:56] lily: although i will admit i haven't really thought much about that 9th level of submission...beyond reading it briefly and chuckling...thinking ummmmmmm not for me
[22:06:22] CC: I cannot imagine one easily giving submission OR taking responsibility w/o an indepth search of ones self as well as one's prospective partner
[22:07:36] Justin: *sip* but heres the thing
[22:07:49] Justin: it doesn't make a damn what I think
[22:08:29] CC: again imho ... I think there are a lot of things parading around as situational submission and dominace (sub and dom of convenience for a variety of reasons) which leads me to believe the mantle of submission and dominance are too often merely words that are not evidenced by the way one demonstrates it in their relationships
[22:08:39] CC: bravo!!! Standing O!!!
[22:09:01] Justin: *stands up and SCREAMS....HELL YEAH*
[22:09:36] Justin: I don;t know what she is yelling about yal
[22:09:50] Justin: I know what I am yelling about :)
[22:11:13] CC: but in the umbrella version of BDSM it is as Justin says ... it doesnt make a damn what I think .... others will continue to claim to be sub/dom/top/bottom/switch/slave moments after reading a definition on line and head to the nearest dungeon they can find and proclaim themselves at level 7 of submission and and and
[22:11:43] CC: hands Justin a glass of water :)
[22:11:53] Justin: right....and I have people in place now to in trees to drop them with a silent 22
[22:11:55] CC: didnt want you to get a dry throat over there
[22:12:24] Justin: *takesthe water, caffiene diet coke sucks as a chaser*
[22:12:29] CC: kinky vigilantes?
[22:12:48] Justin: not so much
[22:13:05] Justin: with the ecoonmy like it is people just need work
[22:13:06] CC: kink patrol
[22:13:07] gentle: <just sitting here>
[22:13:12] CC: BRAND them
[22:13:20] CC: man I was about to tap out a mantra!!!
[22:13:25] gentle: <just sitting here>
[22:13:26] gentle: <just sitting here>
[22:13:54] Justin: *scopes gentle just sitting there*
[22:13:55] CC: *trying hard NOT to laugh* Well then there is PLENTY to keep them busy!
[22:14:02] Justin: nice :)
[22:14:15] lily: <just sitting here>
[22:14:27] gentle: Why do y'all think people say they are submitting... or dominating but they are not?
[22:14:35] Justin: ok, I have over stayed my welcome, I am going to smoke
[22:14:55] CC: I guess I have been doing some thinking over the past month what I submit to a relatioinship w/a submissive /slave
[22:15:08] CC: no you havent darlin .. you are always welcom
[22:15:16] CC: and thanks for the munchies
[22:15:44] CC: (hopes your blood pressure didnt go too high *S*)
[22:16:54] CC: I submit to taking on the responsibility (as mentioned earlier) to taking the end of the leash one puts on a collar that binds me to that one just as surely as a collar IF I take my responsiblities seriously
[22:17:43] lily: ahhhhhhh but isn't that the key CC
[22:17:47] gentle: Night Justin..... :)
[22:18:04] CC: not only the responsibility but also the need to look forward to the end results (again as mentioned earlier)
[22:18:04] CC: <just sitting here>
[22:18:26] lily: isn't there alot who don't take the responsibilities seriously??????? and i'm not talking just about Dom/mes not taking their responsibilities seriously..i am talking about subs not taking their responsibilities seriously as well
[22:18:45] lily: night Justin :)
[22:19:18] CC: I choose to exercise power and authority to have watch/care over another ... not as a mother but caretaker/guardian/mentor/guide etc
[22:19:29] CC: and most of all companion
[22:20:22] CC: lily I think that there are a lot of them that do not wish to know/understand or live responsiblly . therefore the dominance/submission of convenience
[22:20:38] CC: most often in a sexual connotation ... immediate gratification
[22:21:10] lily: or perhaps just a level one or two sub?????
[22:21:55] lily: which to me is not gratifying...and believe me i've tried it
[22:22:09] CC: perhaps others are merely involved in control ... either by exercising it or abdicating responsiblity
[22:22:41] CC: boy ... try to type and talk and hold phone
[22:23:02] CC: it might be icecream .. but it will never be a hot fudge sunday
[22:23:14] CC: perhaps for some the ice cream is enough
[22:23:38] CC: I want the ice cream, the hot fudge, the pecans, whipped cream w/a cherry on top!
[22:23:55] lily: or perhaps it is enough for those that can't really have more
[22:24:10] CC: but then that IS just me .. it isnt a CC Documentary on how things should be
[22:24:27] CC: what do we settle for?
[22:24:33] CC: we all have choices ...
[22:24:53] CC: we weigh what we want against what we have and what we are willing to pay to have it all
[22:25:04] lily: what we settle for is ultimately a personal decision
[22:25:12] lily: exactly CC
[22:25:32] CC: when checking the ledgers ... it doesnt all come out the same ... and choices are made
[22:26:48] CC: that isnt just in BDSM it is in LIVING ... sometimes I think we wish to remove ourselves to make what we do and who we are "different"
[22:28:12] CC: and yes ... the WHAT can be different but I really wonder if the why is so very different than many of our vanilla counterparts ... what IS different ... is that we often analyze it more deeply and attempt to communicate the depths of thinking that would amaze a great many people
[22:29:16] CC: FAR too much red text showing *lol*
[22:29:37] Justin: <Has left the Dungeon (autologout).>
[22:30:19] CC: what I do wonder about is that for those that choose to "settle" ... will that someday become a burden that is too heavy? and was the price too great?
[22:30:23] lily: i'm just wondering if perhaps our downfall is that we tend to "over analyze" EVERYTHING in the lifestyle
[22:30:54] lily: instead of just negotiating relationships that work for the parties involved....
[22:31:19] lily: eeeeeeeks i feel a soap box talk about labels comming on so i'll shut up now LOL
[22:31:27] CC: I dont think that is it lily ..... I think that a great many "HAVE to be right" to be justified for living an alternative lifestyle and if they are not "right" then guilt creeps in there
[22:32:43] CC: for so many many reasons many of us are laden with guilt over our choices or have been made to feel it in the past ... that leads to feelings of inadequacy that need to be surmounted
[22:33:02] CC: nudges lily ... gives her back her soapbox
[22:33:19] lily: oh i agree with that CC, what i am saying is that they analyze everything trying to make it "fit" into their perception of whats right...instead of realizing that whats really right is whatever works for them
[22:34:49] CC: perhaps the "over analyzing" is done to get things straight in our own minds as well as to discover things about ourselves. I often find that saying something outloud gives it more reality
[22:34:59] lily: i guess i just see the lifestyle and any relationship i've ever had with any Dom/me as such a personal thing........no two relationships i've had have been the same...no two have had the same level of submission, or the same limits...or much of the same of anything...because different people are involved, with differents interests and kink of their own
[22:36:31] CC: yep yep yep and yet the underlying common denominators are .. domination /submission/sadism/masochism/bondage etc ... and even then not always all of them
[22:36:40] CC: and so we talk ..............
[22:36:56] lily: exactly CC
[22:37:02] CC: in sharing thoughts we become more self-aware
[22:37:46] CC: not to make others conform ... but perhaps, to a degree, to be comfortable in our own skin
[22:38:02] CC: only then can we realllllly share what we have with another ...
[22:38:16] CC: one cannot share what one does not have possession of
[22:38:21] lily: i totally agree with that CC
[22:38:55] gentle: We do become more self aware.... another benefit though... is that we stay engaged as a result of the conversation... which I think helps the relationship grow.... beyond the initial stages....
[22:38:56] CC: well ... looks like we've beat that to death *lol* any other comments on submission?
[22:39:15] lily: thats why i am such a big advocate AGAINST labelling......we need to be comfortable in our own skins, we need to be comfortable with our own definitions of things like sub/slave.........
[22:39:30] lily: excellent point gentle :)
[22:40:18] CC: that is another valid point gentle .. in the constant talking we establish communication links that encourage intellectual intercourse inexorably linking ourselves to each other
[22:41:08] gentle: A thought which has wandered through my mind lately.... is who is one submitting for ?? Is it to please one's self.... or for the Dom/me? ..... Not that pleasing one's self is bad....
[22:42:44] gentle: but if one is doing something which simply pleases one's self.... is that energy exchange happening?..... Let me give an example....
[22:42:49] gentle: <just sitting here>
[22:43:27] lily: <just sitting here>
[22:44:03] gentle: I love to cook ... and to please my Dom/me decide to make homemade blueberry muffins.... I focus on how much I enjoy the baking... the making.. the textures .. the smells..... and voila they are done and I present them..... but did I do that for me or for my Dom/me?
[22:44:31] CC: best case scenario I would say both .. though I KNOW it is done for one's self and the dom being the recipient of "unasked for" submission .... or a submissive gives to a dom because they "should" regardless of their pleasure
[22:44:57] CC: hmm well does your Dom LIKE/want/desire blueberry muffins?
[22:45:27] CC: if the answer is no .. then you did it for yourself w/o thought or concern to the wants/needs/desires of one's dom
[22:46:18] gentle: Its just a question I ask myself from time to time... as a touchstone. For example..... I want to "give" to my Dom/me.... what does my Dom/me like/enjoy is a good place to start with my focus.
[22:46:33] CC: if you HATED making blueberry muffins and knew your dom liked/wanted and desired blueberry muffins then you submit your hate for doing so and do it to please another
[22:47:32] CC: and STILL make the best blueberry muffins in Georgia
[22:47:58] gentle: Sometimes.... I think we lose our focus a bit..... and think we are being pleasing.... when we are really focusing on our own pleasures.
[22:48:04] CC: now bear in mind that one does not have to dislike doing something for it to be submission
[22:48:32] lily: brb
[22:48:42] gentle: *lol* well CC as you know... I am not a wonderful cook... I should have been clearer ... this is only for example purposes.
[22:49:36] gentle: I think it has to do with intent and focus..
[22:49:42] CC: in all honesty I do not think that even in a 24/7 relationship that can be omni present ... even if one IS in mindset "all the time" we do by virtue of life have to step out of D/s perameters at least outwardly from time to time
[22:50:19] CC: hey I KNOW you can stop by a store and pick up Killer Brownie Bites!
[22:50:52] CC: :)
[22:51:09] gentle: I have been pondering this in context of .... a relationship .... with an exchange of energy between the two. While looking at... am I doing this all by myself over here.... or am I giving to the other?
[22:51:28] gentle: I do know where to get amazing brownie bites! *g*
[22:51:35] CC: If there isnt anything else ... I think that acutally kind of wraps it for the night. *lil yawn*
[22:51:52] lily: was a very good chat :)
[22:52:11] CC: y'know gentle ...
[22:52:18] gentle: It is not an all the time focus... but another balancing/check-in point.
[22:52:28] lily: i think i hear that little dom brucie calling me LOL
[22:52:49] CC: for those w/o a partner one doesnt stop being submissive or enjoying serving ... any more than a dominant w/o a partner ceases to be a dominant.
[22:52:55] gentle: *grins at lily*.... enjoyed your comments...
[22:53:18] CC: We simply find other ways to focus and direct those energies
[22:53:39] gentle: Yes Ma'am. :)
[22:53:46] CC: if we are lucky ... then there will be someone that enjoys being the yin to our yang
[22:53:53] gentle: An excellent point.
[22:53:57] lily: thats something i've been mulling over lately CC, not sure i agree with you on that, haven't worked it out for myself yet
[22:54:06] CC: I think we may all go visit brucie :)
[22:54:43] lily: night gentle and CC :)
[22:54:54] CC: bouncing between the guardrails there gentle?
[22:55:28] CC: well let me know when you do lily *S*
